TheKnight writes: Anyone in NZ? Anyone in Auckland? Then don’t miss Bruce Hopkins (Gamling in TTT & ROTK) in the title role of Macbeth at the Silo Theatre in Lower Greys Avenue. I have seen many Macbeths in my time but this one take the prize for sheer intensity.
Everything and everyone (cast, direction, costumes, fight choreography) was right on target from the eerie “when shall we three meet again” opening the play, all the way through to bloody closure when they are happily dragging off Macbeth’s body. There was a visible crescendo of transformation in the main characters and a special touching tenderness in the way Bruce (Macbeth), fresh from victory on another field of battle, whistles sweetly to his Lady (Kate Parker) – love passion and tenderness; then everything begins that steady slide downwards through an intense tango towards death and destruction. The direction was dead-on-target and created a unity that is hard to find and feel in theatre this day and age. Down to earth. Great drama. It was incredible to see the way Bruce matured in his character as he went on. Prepare to be close up and personal as with the transverse stage you are literally in the middle of the action. Capes swirling, dirks flashing, mad women mumbling. The final sword fight between Macbeth and Macduff is hair-raising and staggering in it’s intensity as they battle to the death up and down the stage, swords clashing and smashing with sparks flying into the crowd. Worth the price of admission actually.
Bruce is just great. Everything he promised as Gamling on the screen comes through brilliantly as Macbeth on the stage. Such a pleasure to be able to see him up close and personal in a Shakespearian play where he can show his talent and let loose together with a great supporting cast. My compliments to them all for a wonderful evenings entertainment. So if you are in Auckland get out and see the play and support Bruce!
We have two costuming panels in store for you this year and each one will have different examples of costumes from the movies. These costumes have been made by fans with a deep love of LOTR and wonderful talents in the field of costuming. Here’s what is on the slate for these two sessions.
Saturday 10 am Session 1: Hobbit Hippies and Elven Elegance This panel is made up of experienced costumers who have created and altered patterns for the gowns and clothing worn by the ladies, elves and hobbits in Middle-earth. This session will offer tips and resources on research materials, planning and construction of costumes as well as ideas and hints for Elf and Hobbit make-up and hair.
Quimbie Olmstead: – Arwen’s Chase, Haldir’s jacket Topic: Choosing and researching a costume for you, and making it suit you
Quimbie’s costuming bug was fueled by her discovery of her talent for sewing in junior high home economics classes. She began to foster her love for sewing just out of Junior high, with Star Trek alien girls wrapped in modified sheets stitched on lame’ panels for a movies opening night. Her newfound love of costuming developed over the years into many genres including everything from Gothic/Vampire attire to fantasy Lord of the Rings garb. She has done some replica work, drafting patterns from photos or drawings. Her costumes have garnered her awards at costume compactions, both big and small. Quimbie prefers to create her own costumes based on the general look of movie or genres Her true love lies not in reproductions but her own creative slant on recognizable costumes. She’s also known for her economical prop building. Her costumes are to numerous to list, many evolving from one genre to another, with a little inspiration, needle and thread. Always on the lookout, she’s just waiting for that perfect moment of inspiration to strike.
Mindy started sewing in 7th or 8th grade home ec. and started designing clothes she was 12 when she began exploring ideas and using creative problem solving skills to achieve the end result I wanted. As a senior in high school she became involved in theatre and in college developed a love for costuming. She has explored many techniques and created costumes for classic theatre, children’s theatre, dance, personal designs, and SCA costumes out the yen yang. For three years she has been involved in a I.A.T.S.E. Local 174 (International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees) and in SCA: Barony of Rivenstar/Sternfeld 12+years as well as various weaving and knitting guilds. Online she participates in the LOTR costuming group, the Qui-Gon Jinn Discussion list, the Madame_Malkins- Harry Potter Costuming Group and Indyknights. As a costumer she would like to explore more dyeing techniques, and textile crafts such as felting. Eventually she would like to complete a Master’s degree in costume design and technologies.
Maggie has no professional costuming experience and her real life job is at NASA. But she has been costuming since after The Phantom Menace when she and her friend decided to make authentic Jedi costumes for a Halloween party that October. Since then, her interest in costume and sewing experience has grown. She and her friends have started an unofficial costume group called “Team Padawan” that attend conventions together. They recently won “Best Presentation” and “Best in Class” at Balticon. Her online activities involve active membership in the Alleycatscratch Yahoo LotR list, The Star Wars Jedi Council costume Forum, and the Yahoo Harry Potter and Ever After lists, and running the “Padawans Guide” Star Wars Prequel Costume website.
Sean Patton – Frodo’s traveling outfit Topic: Pattern drafting from scratch
Sean has been costuming since 1991. He once worked as a theatre major in the costume shop at Winthrop University and was a fashion design major at the American College for the Applied Arts. For the last three years he is the shop foreman, in house designer, cutter and stitcher for the Atlanta branch of a national theatrical supply house. He has made one Lord of the Ring costume but has created many other costumes from other venues. On line he has been participating in the Alleycatscratch LOTR Yahoo group.
Rebecca M. Jordan (Neume) – Arwens Blood Red Dress, Arwen’s Chase Dress, elven dress inspired by Galadriels Mirror dress, and Legolas costume. Topic: Make-up and finishing touches
Rebecca graduated with a degree in Psychology from Belmont University in 1994.Where she dabbled in Clay, throwing pottery and simple sculptures. She is currently employed by a Foreign Language Audio magazine Publishing Company in Nashville, TN. When not at work, she spends most of her time working with her two horses, and serves on the Tenn. State Appaloosa Horse Club’s Board of Directors. Her first costume endeavor was in 1994. Over the next four years she made quite a few outfits always seeking to improve her level of authenticity and found that the feeling of having made it herself was really fun and rewarding. After a few inactive years Rebecca was inspired by the elven dresses in The Fellowship of the Ring and then joined the online Lotr costuming group and recently joined a SCA group.
Sunday 10 am Session 2: Middle-earth Warrior Wear Not everyone has access to a foundery or leather workshop, and creative solutions are a must when constructing armored costumes. This panel will demonstrate how to create templates for armor and leather work from scratch, discuss the wide variety of medium options, provide resources for tutorials and obtaining materials, give construction techniques and explain a how to process for making your own orc skin.
Shan Green – Eowyn’s Shield Maiden, Legolas jerkin prototype Topic: Working with suede and leather (or their substitutes)
Shan teaches music (violin); and an occasional college level courses. She is a self-taught costumer who experiments and learns from other costumers in her endeavors. She has been casually costuming since 1986 but became much more fanatical since 1999. To her experience she has created, Obi-Wan Ep 1 (two versions), Obi-Wan Ep2, Barriss Offee from Star Wars Ep 2, (helped with Luminara Unduli, same movie), Gandalf the Grey, China Doll can-can dancer from Moulin Rouge, Neo from Matrix 2, various and sundry ‘Renn Faire’ outfits, quite a few Jedi robes (O and Q styles) and an extra Jedi tunic/undertunic or two. Her future projects include: a second Neo jacket, Eowyn Shield Maid, perhaps TTT Elf armor outfit. Shan is a member of the Alleycatscratch LOTR Yahoo list.
Julia McGee – Galadriel Mirror and Helm’s Deep Elven Armor Topic: Armor templates and choosing materials
Julia was a Fine Art Studio Major with an emphasis in sculpture and ceramics. Currently she is a stay-at-home mom for her two small children. She had always loved creating low scale costumes for halloween but didn’t become seriously at costuming until she became involved in a forum for a website called Obi-wan’s Jedi Academy about two years ago. She has since made several Star Wars costumes including an Episode II Obi-wan Kenobi and a Mini Jango Fett. When FOTR was released she ventured out of Star Wars and set herself to making a Galadriel costume and from that was inspired to make a Boromir. With the release of The Two Towers and all the experience she had gained from other costumes, she found the confidence to start on a costume that she never would have imagined possible a few years ago: The Helm’s Deep Elven Armor.
Kevin Zabawa: Ring Wraith Topic: Basic Armor Construction
In the four years Kevin has been costuming with the 501st Empire City Garrison, he has created four Star Wars costumes, including a Darth Vader with a working sound effects system. Recently he ventured into a Fellowship of LOTR fans to construct a Witch King costume. As an audio Visual Technician, his background in Basic electronics, Puppet construction and puppeteering and scale model building have contributed to his costuming endeavors.
Jason Gallo (Darth Goat) – Urak-kai skin Topic: Orc Skin
In the two and a half years Jason has been costuming he has created six costumes with two more under construction. He has used vacuum-formed plastic, some latex, resin and metal. He is a major coordinator of the Star Wars fan club, the Rebel Legion, having been a member for two and a half years, and has been a member of the 501st for the last year. He is a software engineer and uses his engineering background when confronting and solving costuming problems. To see more of his work and some upcoming tutorials you may visit [here].
<inJvstice> greetings <inJvstice> well Gorlab (Kris) may be joining us later in the session <<inJvstice> I’m gonna turn this over to Annatar now….. <Annatar> Annatar here Aiya! <Alorin> Suilaid <Annatar> first order of business, did anyone catch the lessons we did about Qenya or Sindarin verbs? <jincey> i did…. but don’t count me ; ) <The_One_Ring> i missed it. <Annatar> or, or that matter, Quenya 😉 <Beruthiel> I think so, but can’t remember <Annatar> OK, how about last week’s Tengwar lesson? <Beruthiel> nope <Annatar> OK <Annatar> First off, <Annatar> inJvstice will show how the inscripiton on the title page of LOTR is constructed <inJvstice> o.k. so I’ve been asked to mention a bit about the runic inscriptions <inJvstice> does everyone have a copy of ROTK? <Beruthiel> yup <The_Mighty_Turnip> yesss <The_One_Ring> yup <The_Mighty_Turnip> or course <inJvstice> specifically the Title Page, and appn. E <The_One_Ring> yup <inJvstice> k, in Appx E there is the basic chart for the Tengwar Characters <inJvstice> Tengwar is the plural form of Tengwa (or letter) <Beruthiel> ok, found it <inJvstice> well to begin with this is the basic way each of the tengwar is presented <inJvstice> These letters represent basic phonetic sounds, <inJvstice> so they can be used to represent any given language. <inJvstice> For instance one could use them to write in Quenya, Sindarin, or English <inJvstice> (or any other language for that matter….Russian, Spanish, etc….) <The_One_Ring> but, isn’t it easiest in quenya/sindarian because of the consonant clusters, and diphthongs? <The_One_Ring> etc. <inJvstice> well yes. in a sense <Elaran> no… <inJvstice> The Tengwar are somewhat originally formed for Quenya <inJvstice> however, by changing the values along certain phonetically logical lines <inJvstice> they can be used for any language <The_One_Ring> i see. <inJvstice> English is somewhat difficult since there are several letters which have similar sounds <inJvstice> k and q for instance <inJvstice> so <inJvstice> one moment <inJvstice> hmmm there is a site where you can find the tengwar values for most languages <inJvstice> Quenya, Sindarin, English, a few others <inJvstice> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/ <Beruthiel> http://mimas.ceti.pl/tengwar/ott/english.php how about this one? <inJvstice> the sites contains charts for Quenya, Sindarin, Sindarin Beleriand, and English <inJvstice> I like these since they use the same structure as the appx E <inJvstice> While giving you all the needed values for each letter <inJvstice> anyhooo. I tried this last week and discovered that this is not a good medium for teaching Tengwar use….. <inJvstice> I can’t demonstrate <inJvstice> so I’ll simply say this…. <inJvstice> that by following the charts with English values, you can translate <inJvstice> the Title Page inscription <inJvstice> which in Roman Characters reads…. <inJvstice> “of Westmarch by John Ronald Reuel Tolkien. Herein is set forth the history of the War of the Ring and the return of the King as seen by the Hobbits” <jincey> of westmarch? <jincey> nothing before that? <inJvstice> this is the bottom of the page <Alorin> of.. like about <inJvstice> the top of the page in the Cirith Runes reads “The Lord of the Rings translated from the Red Book” inJvstice> (thats the first part of the whole thing) <Beruthiel> never knew that <jincey> nice : ) <inJvstice> I’ve not made much study of the Cirith….though appx E also contains translations for the Cirith <inJvstice> for now there is a tengwar textbook that ban be downloaded from <inJvstice> http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001 <inJvstice> this a truely remarkable textbook on how to use the tengwar <Beruthiel> got it <inJvstice> also the use of the tethar, which are the diacritic marks above and below the tengwar <inJvstice> you’ll see these in the title page inscirption. <inJvstice> these are the vowels <The_One_Ring> im getting it now <inJvstice> kewl <inJvstice> thats about all I can really do right now on tengwar…. <inJvstice> so I’ll let y’all look at that for the next few weeks or so <The_One_Ring> i already have this, though, but i haven’t really looked at it. <inJvstice> At any of our chats if you’ve any questions I’ll be around to answer them <The_One_Ring> yet <jincey> folks, y’all head to atlanta for dragoncon labor day weekend… <inJvstice> it is worth a look see <jincey> see these folks in person : ) <inJvstice> yes thanx Jincey, I and my compatriots will be there running this in person <Elaran> lol <inJvstice> There I’ll be able to give better instructions and to demonstrate the use of the tnegwar <Beruthiel> wish Atlanta was closer <inJvstice> until then the text book is a great resorce <Beruthiel> then Jincey can teach us! <The_One_Ring> if only i could drive… <inJvstice> I’m going to attempt a slide show or some other medium to cover this online <inJvstice> though I might be able to before the DragonCon <Beruthiel> there’s a workshop at the Toronto Gathering that I’ll be going to <The_One_Ring> awsum. <inJvstice> for now I’m going to turn over to Annatar…… <Annatar> Hello.. <Annatar> I usually appear in these chats as Annatar <Annatar> but my name is Paul <Beruthiel> hi Paul <Annatar> Sindarin is the area I usually cover, <Elaran> i lam arth 😉 <Annatar> but I also do a lot of phonology, <Annatar> or pronunciation, if you will <Annatar> Sindarin is particularly interesting in that its elements often change their sound <Annatar> according to what their “job” is in the sentnce <Annatar> altough this sounds a lot like a “case system” such as you’d have in, say Latin or Russian <The_One_Ring> im learning quenya right now, but do you suggest also learning sindarian? <Annatar> it’s not normally described like that <The_One_Ring> similar to russian. thats good. <Annatar> Honestly, <Annatar> I think that it is a good idea to try learning Quenya first <The_One_Ring> ok <Annatar> as TORN no doubt knows <Annatar> there is a good Quenya course at Ardalambion.com <The_One_Ring> i am using that. <Annatar> which everyone rightfully refers to as the place you need to go <Annatar> for Sindarin, http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/ <Alorin> Annatar.. there isnt much information about Sindarin phonology around.. and the info that there is, usually speaks of the pronounciation of vowels and letter separately <Annatar> is the place to go <Annatar> needless to say, what we know about <Elaran> as opposed to what Alorin? <Annatar> Sindarin phonology <Annatar> is somewhat fragmentary <Annatar> however, there seems to be ageneral agreement amongst scholars <Annatar> (one of whom I am not) <Annatar> as to what Sindarin sounds like <Annatar> This allowed David Salo to write Sindarin dialogue for PJ’s LOTR movie <Annatar> although the pronuciation is not always what everyone would like <Annatar> case in point <Annatar> it’s <Annatar> because according to Tolkien’s instructions <Annatar> in a 2 syllable word <Annatar> the stress always falls on the 1st syllable <Annatar> this rule applies to bith Sindarin and Quenya <Annatar> both <Annatar> However, the guide in App.E of LOTR is usually sufficient <Annatar> as a guide to pronunciation <Annatar> when you her JRRT reading some of his own poetry <Annatar> in both Quenya and Sindarin, it is consistent with his written guidelines <Annatar> next week, I’ll try to do a quick review of the Sindarin verb <Annatar> and intruduce sound mutations <Annatar> it’s not really that hard though <Annatar> for example, <Annatar> we all know that <Annatar> and <Annatar> for the moment <Annatar> I’ll just give you one more online resource <Annatar> http://www.aboriginemundi.com/sindarin/related.htm <Annatar> this will link you to a truly KILLER Sindarin dictionary <Annatar> there is also a Windows app that encapsulates this dictionary <Annatar> now, to close this session, Kris, aka Gorlab will say a few words about Quenya, <Gorlab> Hello everybody, this is Kris Nelson here now… <Gorlab> I deal with the Quenya end of things… <Beruthiel> hi Kris <Gorlab> Quenya is, of course the “other” Elvish tongue… <Gorlab> as opposed to Sindarin… <Gorlab> In the inner story, Quenya was the language spoken by the three tribes of elves that lived across the sea from Middle-Earth in Aman – land of the Gods…. <Gorlab> Those three tribes were the Vanyar, the Noldor, and the Teleri…. <Gorlab> The Noldor spoke what could be viewed as the closest thing to “book” Quenya as you can get… <Gorlab> The Vanyar spoke a slightly different dialect and there were features of Telerin that could almost be considered a seperate kind of language, but for the most part they all spoke QUENYA… <Gorlab> When the Noldor left Aman to return back to Middle-earth they brought Quenya with them… <Gorlab> but not before they slaughtered some of their kin, the Teleri, to do it… <Gorlab> when this fact was discovered by the Sindarin king Thingol, Quenya was banned in public in the kingdom of the Sindar and became a “book” tongue… <Gorlab> Quenya survives into the third-age Lord of the Rings era through Galadriel and some of her speeches in Lothlorien… <Gorlab> Galadriel, of course was one of the Noldorin exiles from way back in the 1rst age and so is one of our only native speakers… <Gorlab> As for the language itself… <Gorlab> it resembles Finnish in some aspects…. <Gorlab> because that was one of the languages of Tolkien’s heart… <Gorlab> one of the languages that he approved of aesthetically… <Gorlab> and it is the languge of the Kalevala, the finnish mythological epic that inspired a lot of Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion… <jincey> so we could go into #kontu and hear something akin to quenya? <<jincey> that is our finnish room <Gorlab> Yes, something akin to Quenya.. <Gorlab> actually, I met two lovely Finnish skiers who let me assail them with Quenya phrases… <Gorlab> they remarked about how similar it DID sound… <Beruthiel> lol <jincey> really? <Gorlab> Very Good lessons are available on Helge Fauskanger’s site, Ardalambion <Gorlab> It is his Quenya course. <The_One_Ring> ok. councilofelrond.com has a sindarian course, but i havnt looked at it yet. have you seen it? do you think it would be any good? <Gorlab> Helge’s course has lessons, examples, problems, and keys and is very good for beginners, as it shows what we know and what we don’t know about Tolkien’s languages… <Annatar> I, too am curious about their course <Annatar> Unfortunately, it conflicts with my schedule <Elaran> lol <Elaran> <--- tis my course <Annatar> However, Sindarin right now is in a fair amount of flux, <Annatar> and all that we can determine about its stucture and vocabulary <The_One_Ring> ok <Annatar> is of use to the general Tolkien linguistic community <Annatar> up until the movies <Annatar> much effort was being dedicated towards Quenya <Annatar> but now with the new movie-based LOTR interest, <Annatar> there has been a great upsurge on Sindarin interest, and new scholarship as well <Annatar> that’s it for me, but Gorlab has a few things to say <jincey> ok <Gorlab> So, to wrap things up, <Gorlab> Next week we are going to hopefully cover some Elvish phrases… <Gorlab> We have, (for those who have been before) covered pronunciation <Gorlab> nouns <Gorlab> verbs <Gorlab> in both Sindarin and Quenya. <Gorlab> With some detouring into pronouns.. <Gorlab> For those who are new, <The_One_Ring> what about adjectives? <Gorlab> it really isn’t that hard to catch up and catch on… <Beruthiel> I have gone into the acrchives and read the other sessions that are posted there <Gorlab> We are going to slip in some descriptive terms once we have our objects interacting with our subjects… <The_One_Ring> ok. <Gorlab> Building this way we can make more and more complex sentences… <The_One_Ring> i see. <Gorlab> You all are wonderful people to be here like this and be interested in keeping Tolkien’s spirit alive through exercising his creation.. <jincey> you are wonderful for sharing your knowledge with us : ) <Gorlab> I must go fight Dragons now, so I hope to see you all next week – Namarie! <jincey> night guys! <Alorin> Navaer, Gorlab.. Le hannon ‘ni l ‘fb i ‘f3nech ammen! Gorlab has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) Annatar has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) <jincey> thanks for coming y’all 🙂
<Annatar> tonite will be the sindarin verb <GollumsGal> ok. <GollumsGal> i teach Elvish lessons myself, but i just wanted to see what you guys were teaching <Lothengriol> Does anyone know if “galen” is singular or plural? <GollumsGal> singular <Lothengriol> Thank you. <GollumsGal> ur welcome <Lothengriol> So mirgalen would be green jewel? <GollumsGal> well, i would say it as galen m”r, personally <GollumsGal> since it’s Sindarin <Lothengriol> Oh, I thought if it followed it meant “of the..” Thank you again <GollumsGal> well, according to The Languages of Tolkiens Middle Earth, adjectives go before the word they describe <jincey> hiya gorlab : ) <Gorlab> ‘Ullo! <GollumsGal> what’s that mean? <Gorlab> Thanks! <Gorlab> Ullo? <jincey> hiya : ) <GollumsGal> what does mode change mean? <Gorlab> It’s a written approximation of a cockney accent… <Gorlab> Ah…. <GollumsGal> huh? <GollumsGal> oh <GollumsGal> hey, Gorlab, can i ask u a question before the lesson? <Gorlab> Certainly. <Gorlab> Fire Away… <GollumsGal> ok. i’ve never been to any of your lessons before, but i was reading the transcript to lesson 4, and i got confused <Gorlab> what particular part? <GollumsGal> on the pronouns <Gorlab> What confuses you about the pronouns? <Annatar> Quenya or Sindarin? <GollumsGal> u see, i teach Elvish myself, and in all my sources, i never found any sentence with -nye as “I” <GollumsGal> except in utuvienyes <GollumsGal> but i thought that -yes meant “it” <Gorlab> -s means “it” <GollumsGal> at least that’s what it says in The Languages of Tolkien’s Middle Earth <Gorlab> Ruth Noel’s? <GollumsGal> yes <GollumsGal> brb <Gorlab> Some of the information in Ruth Noel’s book has been superceded by information published after her book was…. <Lothengriol> I read that nad tried to learn some, but now hear that it isn’t definative <Gorlab> …such as the History of Middle earth series and some publications like Vinyar Tengwar and Parma Eldalamberon…. <Gorlab> To answer GollumsGal’s question, <Lothengriol> Wouldn’t it be wise to edit it and republish it, rather than earn a bad reputation? <Gorlab> 1rst person Singular Present tense (“I am”)…. <Lothengriol> brb <Annatar> I am personally unaware of the author’s intention regarding that book, but it appears that the publisher simply couldn’t resist <Gorlab> is made by combining the present tense verb na- ( “is”) with the 1rst person singular -nye to caom up with “nanye” <Gorlab> come up with, excuse me <GollumsGal> ok, i’m back <Gorlab> the “ye”portion of -nye can be shortened to just “n” <Annatar> So it’s no precisely a pronoun, but more of “pronomial” ending that does the job of indicating number and person <Gorlab> making it “nan” <GollumsGal> yes, ok, i knew that <GollumsGal> ok, thanks for yur help <GollumsGal> *your <Gorlab> Yes indeed, avatar! <Gorlab> 😉 <GollumsGal> avatar? <Gorlab> No problem, GollumsGal… <GollumsGal> oh <Gorlab> Avatar…has it become that time? <Lothengriol> I’m back, I couldn”t find the etymologies. Now I have the big book out. <Annatar> ava=go, flee tar=lord <Gorlab> er…I mean Annatar… <Gorlab> ava is “don’t” <Annatar> and Gil-Galad would not treat with Annatar… <Annatar> ok <Gorlab> Ahem…..Annatar – is it about that time? <Annatar> Mae govannen y’all <Annatar> Good evening and thank you for coming <Gorlab> elen sila lumenn’ omentielvo everypeoples! <jincey> hi y’all : ) <GollumsGal> a na le, mellyn <Gorlab> Tonight – that wonder of wonders…. <Annatar> Yes, i’ve already seen the trailer, so let’s talk about Verbs! <Gorlab> (drum roll please) <Gorlab> SINDARIN VERBS!!!! <Annatar> let’s all hear it for the Sindarin verb! <Gorlab> Huzzah! <GollumsGal> yay! <Annatar> Happily, some good work has been done concerning the Sindarin verb recently <Annatar> Helge Faukanger, to whom we so often refer, has done a rather complex derivation based on the theories of david Salo, who did th Movie Sindarin <Annatar> however, Ryszard Igor Jerzy Derdzinski has simplified it without alteration <Annatar> so, it is based on information at http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm that I’l be basing this lesson <Annatar> for all you newcomers, Helge is at http://ardalambion.com/ <Annatar> I take that many of you are already familiar with these sources <Annatar> yes? <Maeglin_Lomion> Yes <NerwenArtanis> yes <GollumsGal> uh-huh <Annatar> no is an ok answer too <Annatar> so, here we go <GollumsGal> well, with the first, not the other <Beruthiel> got it now <Annatar> alright, in both Quenya and Sindarin there are two kinds of verb <Annatar> They are the Basic and derived verbs <Annatar> Supposedly, this refers to the structure of [rimitive Elivsh <Annatar> for our purposes, suffice it to say that they take slighlty different forms <Annatar> because of their stems <Annatar> we wil be covering 3 tenses–past, present and future <Annatar> and 3 moods indicitive, supjunctive, and imperitive <Annatar> and most confusingly we will deal with continuative vs. aorist senses <Elessar_T> I gather this will be linguistic heavy <Annatar> not that bad <Gorlab> It’s not that difficult – everything should be defined and explained… <Annatar> some of it’s harder to discuss than to do <GollumsGal> what about auxiliary? <Annatar> none just yet, but many aux. functions are carried out by these senses <GollumsGal> ok <Annatar> for example, <Annatar> we’ll use the example ped- <Annatar> which is the root for the verb “speak” <Annatar> the Aorist sense would be “I am (always) speaking” <Annatar> or “I (as a matter of course) speak <Annatar> that would be “pedin” <Elessar_T> just a question (I missed the start), is this Sindarin or Quenya? <Annatar> but “I am speaking (rigth now) is “pidon” <Annatar> Sindarin <Elessar_T> ok <Gorlab> We covered Quenya Verbs in lesson 5… <GollumsGal> so the “tense” is ‘-o’ <Annatar> ped- is Baic verb, so it gets the vowel change <Elessar_T> ok, guess I missed that one <GollumsGal> oh <Elessar_T> I see that it’s Sindarin now anyway. <Gorlab> (no prob Elessar….lesson 5 should be posted any time now…) <Annatar> -on as and ending applies to 1st sing –“I” for both basic and derived verbs <Annatar> in the continuative (right now) sense <Maeglin_Lomion> So the difference between “ped” and “pid” is perpetual vs. immediate? <GollumsGal> ok, but if it didn’t have I as a subject? <GollumsGal> *”I” <Annatar> endings soon <GollumsGal> ok, sorry <Annatar> pidon=continuative pedin= Aorist <Maeglin_Lomion> Thank you. <Annatar> but let’s look at those endings shall we? <Gorlab> Yes, yes! Let’s! <GollumsGal> yes, let’s <Annatar> to begin with the continuative, it’s “pidon” and “pidam” for 1st person <Annatar> singular and plural <Annatar> that becomss “pidoch” and “pidach” for 2nd person familiar in sing and pl <Annatar> “Pidol” and “pidal” for 2nd person Formal <Annatar> and “pida” and “pidar” for 3rd person in Singular and plural <Annatar> So, “we are speaking (now)” is “pidam” <Annatar> “he/she/it is speaking now” is “pida” <Annatar> dow this make sense? <Annatar> does <GollumsGal> yes, it does <Elessar_T> it does to me <Annatar> thanx <Maeglin_Lomion> Yes. <Annatar> Let’s now advance to the Aorist <Annatar> We are still in the present tens, but now we are referring to more or less eternal conditions <GollumsGal> now, what *does* aorist mean? <Annatar> The example I have often used is that when my father says “the Yankee’s stink” he’s only currently disappointed with them <Gorlab> The aorist, in a way is beyond specific tenses… <GollumsGal> okÉ <Gorlab> it denotes timeless truths… <Annatar> however, when some mocks my beloved Cubs by saying “The Cubs stink” they mean that it’s and unchanging reality <Zach> did i miss the elvish lesson? <Annatar> jsut expling the Aorist sense <Elessar_T> only the start of it <Gorlab> “The Cubs stink” is certainly a timeless truth… <jincey> lol <GollumsGal> of course! <Elessar_T> get back to the sindarin verb, thanks <Annatar> Now, to form this wonderful sense of the verb, differest rndings apply <Annatar> endings apply <Annatar> starting with ped- <Annatar> we get “pedin” and pedim” for the 1st person sing and pl <Annatar> notice that the “e” in ped- remains the same <Annatar> you may also notice that “n” and “m” still end the word <GollumsGal> so it only becomes “i” for continuative? <Annatar> exactly, rushing on to 2nd person, we get for 2nd familiar <Annatar> “pedich” in both Sing and pl <Annatar> and for 2nd person Formal we have “pedil” for singular and plural <Annatar> 3rd goes like “pEd” and “pedir” for singular and plural <Annatar> the “E” indicates an accent (your choice) <Annatar> so to say “he speaks” in the sense of “he speaks for all of us” you would use “pEd” <Annatar> still with me? <GollumsGal> so could that be pŽd? <Annatar> I guess <GollumsGal> ok <Elessar_T> with you <Eowyn_Sister-Daughter> still with you <Annatar> the important thing is to indicate the long, that is actually lengthened vowel <GollumsGal> still w/ ya <Maeglin_Lomion> What was that 2nd character after the p, GollumsGal? I got a square box. <GollumsGal> e with an accent <Maeglin_Lomion> Thank you. <Annatar> ’cause in Sindarin, the lengthened vowel is considered to be grammatically seperate <Annatar> Tolkien never quite seemed to decide, so I can’t really either <Elessar_T> accent and cirkumflex can both be applied to a vowel to indicate lengthened sound, right? <Annatar> exactly <Annatar> now let’s try a derived vowel <Annatar> linna- <Annatar> it means “sing” <Annatar> now this follows about the same pattern of “ped-“ <GollumsGal> i thought it meant ‘chant’ <Elessar_T> sing and chant are quite synonymous, though <GollumsGal> oh, ok\ <Annatar> BUT, it doesn’t have the vowel trans form in the stem that “ped-” does <GollumsGal> why not? <Annatar> ’cause it’s derived, and, and, well, it’s derived? <Annatar> I don’t really know <GollumsGal> k <Elessar_T> but it is in most cases possible to see the difference between them, right? <Annatar> but that’s the only real reason we’re messing around with “derived” vs. “basic,” which doesn’t really matter other wise <GollumsGal> ok <Annatar> from “linna-” we get “linnom” and “linnam” ind 1st person sing and pl <Annatar> “linnoch” and “linnach” for 2nd person familiar sing/pl <Annatar> “linnol” and “linnal” for 2nd pers. sing/pl <Annatar> and “linna” and “linnar” for 3rd person sing/pl <Annatar> so it’s not really that different <Elessar_T> why does the 1st person singular end with an “m”? it ended with “n” in basic verbs <Annatar> sorry bad typing, you are correct <GollumsGal> ok, whew <Annatar> it should be “linnon” for 1st <Elessar_T> ok, typo demons are annoying 🙁 <Annatar> to get to Aorist, we don’t really have to do much else <Annatar> 1st person Aorist sing/pl is “linnan”/ “linnam” <Annatar> 2nd person Familiar is “linnach” for sing and pl <Annatar> 2nd Formal is “linnal” for sing/pl <Annatar> and for 3rtd it’s “liina” and “linnar” <Annatar> so, the endings and transfor mations should be alittle clearer now <GollumsGal> what is 3rd singular? <Elessar_T> how do you pronounce a double vowel? is it long like if it had an accent? <Annatar> “linna” <GollumsGal> oh, k <Elessar_T> oops sorry <Annatar> opps Action: Elessar_T kills Annatar’s typo demon <Annatar> thanx <Annatar> now we’ll try to get into the past (tense) <Gorlab> Yes, yes! Kill the Typo Daemons…. <GollumsGal> lol <Annatar> ist’s basically an insetions of “-nt” which mutates to “nn” in actual usage <GollumsGal> what does that mean? <Annatar> so, going 1st/2ndfam/2ndFormal/3rd we get <Elessar_T> this goes for both basic and derived verbs? <Annatar> this is where you see a siligh difference “pennin”/”pennim” <Eowyn_Sister-Daughter> what is an insetion? <Annatar> “linnen”/linnem” <GollumsGal> could you like rewind and clarify? <Elessar_T> insection is between the stem and the ending, right? <Annatar> insertion, rather <Elessar_T> ok <Eowyn_Sister-Daughter> oh, ok, thanks <Annatar> yes, exactly <Elessar_T> infix is another word for it, I think <Annatar> for 2nd familiar, we get “pennich” for sing/pl and “linnech” for sing. pl <Gorlab> It is now Gorlab’s time to leave this fine hall…but I hope to see you all next week. Annatar will continue on in fine form as he has been for as long as he can but for me: <Gorlab> Namarie!!! <GollumsGal> bye <Maeglin_Lomion> Namárië, Gorlab. <Annatar> for 2nd Formal it’s “pennil” and “linnel” <jincey> : ) <Annatar> and for 3rd, and this is the good part… <Maeglin_Lomion> What does the root “pen” mean? <Elessar_T> speak <Annatar> ped- is to speak <Maeglin_Lomion> How did we get to pen from ped? <Elessar_T> but go on. 3rd person.. <Annatar> beut that -nt just kills the “d” and makes it “n” <Maeglin_Lomion> OK, thanks. <GollumsGal> ok, but it is bsorbed by the n in linna? <GollumsGal> *absorbed <Annatar> for “ped-” 3rd sing is “pent” and plural is “pennir” <Annatar> but for “linna-“ <Annatar> it’s “linnant” sing and “linner” ind 3rd person <Elessar_T> why? <GollumsGal> whoa, why? <Annatar> this is where we see that ped- is a stem that ends in a consonant <Elessar_T> wait, I see, basic/derived right? <Annatar> and “linna- is a stem that ends in a vowel <Annatar> yes, Elessar, thou hast got it <GollumsGal> uh, Annatar, what would be the root for noro? <GollumsGal> is it basic or derived? <Elessar_T> I guess I’m just talented with languages 🙂 <Annatar> I had hoped to get to the future tense, which also comes in continuative and Aorist senses, but just go to http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/language.htm and if you’ve followed this so far, it shouldn’t be too hard <Annatar> one sec, GG I’d have to look it up <GollumsGal> k <Annatar> “noro” like in “noro lIm Asfoloth,” right? <GollumsGal> yes <Elessar_T> sounds basic to me… but I’m not an expert… <Annatar> “noro” would be in the imperative, which end is “o” <Annatar> for basic, just add “o” <Annatar> for derived substitute “o” for the vowel <GollumsGal> k, i think got it <GollumsGal> *i got <Maeglin_Lomion> As in…pedo and linno? <Annatar> Thank you all for coming, we’ll be back next week
<inJvstice> greetings <Maeglin_Lomion> Hi inJvstice <Lothengriol> Hi <inJvstice> Were you guys waitng for the Quenya/Sindarin chat? <Maeglin_Lomion> Yep <inJvstice> well there might be some difficulties with that to night <inJvstice> is or was Jincey around? <Maeglin_Lomion> I was going to try to catch her at Barlimans, then you showed up. Is Gorlab coming too? <inJvstice> ahhh he just arrived <inJvstice> hmmm <inJvstice> well We”re not assembled nor are we truly prepaired tonight <Maeglin_Lomion> Jincey is in #theonering.net. Want me to get her over here? <inJvstice> however, I might be able to give at least a quick lesson on Tengwar <Maeglin_Lomion> Be back in a sec………. <Lothengriol> That would be interesting <inJvstice> o.k. well I’m not entirely prepaired for that but I tell you what I know <Maeglin_Lomion> OK <inJvstice> unfortunatly we do not have our own web site up and running right now <inJvstice> do any of you have access to a tengwar chart? <inJvstice> either online or from ROTK Appendix? <Lothengriol> no <Maeglin_Lomion> Yes <Maeglin_Lomion> Appendix E <inJvstice> hold on a minunte and I’ll try to find a good url for you to open <Lothengriol> OK, I’m with you now <inJvstice> http://hem.passagen.se/mansb/at/teng_names.htm <inJvstice> try that <Maeglin_Lomion> Got it….with a bazillion popup boxes. AAARGH. <inJvstice> hmmm didna get pop up myself <inJvstice> all right first of all see the 1st chart listed there? <Maeglin_Lomion> I’ve been there before. Every time I change pages, I get popups. <Maeglin_Lomion> Yep. <inJvstice> o.k. <Lothengriol> OK <inJvstice> compare that to the chart in Appn. E of ROTK <inJvstice> with me? <Maeglin_Lomion> It’s the same, except Appendix E doesn’t have the text with each letter. <inJvstice> yes <inJvstice> that is the standard form the tengwar chart assume <inJvstice> assumes <inJvstice> on the URL I gave you the chart also includes the Quenya names of each of the tengwa or letters <inJvstice> and the english equivolents of each name. <inJvstice> for instance on the top row <inJvstice> you have tinco (metal), parma (book), calma (lamp), and quesse (feather) <inJvstice> follow? <Maeglin_Lomion> Got it. <Lothengriol> k <inJvstice> now the quenya names for each other tengwa contain (in general) the phomeic quality of the letter <inJvstice> so tinco = t, parma = p, calma = k (since the ‘c’ in quenya and sindarin is always a hard ‘c’ or ‘ka’ sound) <inJvstice> and quesse = qu <Lothengriol> I actually get it <inJvstice> kewl its not that much of a streach… <inJvstice> *-) <inJvstice> now moving down, the second row…. <inJvstice> ando = nd, umbar = mb, anga =ng, and ungwe = nge <inJvstice> these are the ‘original’ quenya values <inJvstice> since in quenya these are common consonant combinations <inJvstice> we’ll hold off on english values for a moment <inJvstice> you with me on the second row? <Lothengriol> yes <Maeglin_Lomion> Yep <inJvstice> no if you want, appendix E actually give all the values for both english and quenya <inJvstice> you have to read through it a bit to fingure it all out <inJvstice> so let me digress here for a moment and go to a point I should have stated first….. <inJvstice> that is the tengwar is a system of writing phonetics <inJvstice> that is to say each tengwar represents a particular sound <inJvstice> so you can use the same symbols (tengwar) to represnt sounds in diffrent languages <inJvstice> useing the Roman characters (the ones we are typing with) to write english, french, or spanish <inJvstice> sorta <inJvstice> to change modes or languages though the values will change <inJvstice> o.k. for an idea of differnt modes go here <inJvstice> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/tengwar/ <inJvstice> let me know when yer there <Lothengriol> you expect too much of me, just go on <Maeglin_Lomion> I’m there. More popups. Great. <inJvstice> wierd no popup here again <inJvstice> oh well scroll down and find the link to English language <Maeglin_Lomion> Got it, clicked it….much better descriptions for the letters! 🙂 <inJvstice> yes <Maeglin_Lomion> Fewer popups too. <inJvstice> this give you good values for useing the tengwar to write english words <inJvstice> the other tree links on the homepage there give values for quenya, sindarin classical, and sindarin beleriand <Maeglin_Lomion> Nice charts to print. <inJvstice> ues I recommend printing them <inJvstice> if you can <inJvstice> or at least copying them to a harddrive <Maeglin_Lomion> doing that now. 🙂 <inJvstice> you’ll notice that the basic chart does not contain any vowels <inJvstice> what you have in the basic chart is the consonantal values <Lothengriol> because it is an “ancient” language <inJvstice> the vowels are actually extra characters called tethar (or tetha in the singular) <inJvstice> are you guys still on english? <inJvstice> the chart that is? <Maeglin_Lomion> I am. <inJvstice> kewl <Lothengriol> I am just using books <inJvstice> Lothengriol, you are in ROTK? <Lothengriol> and Noel <inJvstice> k <inJvstice> in ROTK look at the title page there are tengwar inscriprions there <inJvstice> you’ll the consonant characters with some other marks above some of them <Lothengriol> the vowels? <inJvstice> yes <Lothengriol> got it <inJvstice> in quenya the tethar are written above the preceeding consonant <inJvstice> so you would read each tengwar then the tetha above it <inJvstice> this is difficult to do in this chat cause I really need to demonstrate <inJvstice> bleh <inJvstice> so in sindarin (and english) the vowel is placed above the succeeeding consonant <inJvstice> reading the tethe then the tengwar beneth it <inJvstice> tetha. <inJvstice> follw me here? <Lothengriol> yes <Maeglin_Lomion> What printing of ROTK are you looking at where there is Tengwar in the title page? I have a paperback printing from 1969 of the trilogy. <inJvstice> oh there is not tengwar inscriptions on the title page? <Lothengriol> ’65 <Maeglin_Lomion> Not on the ’69 Ballantyne Books printing. <inJvstice> ahhh <inJvstice> didn’t know that <inJvstice> every copy I have or have seen has it <inJvstice> wierd <Maeglin_Lomion> I’ve got Dwarven runes. <inJvstice> what about on the bottom of the page? <inJvstice> do you have any of the “HOME” series? <Maeglin_Lomion> Ack…yes, you’re right. D’oh..! 🙂 <inJvstice> o.k. <Maeglin_Lomion> I’ve got HoME <inJvstice> now that is written in English ‘mode’ <inJvstice> all of HoME has inscriptions too <inJvstice> the Professor does give enough information in Appen E to translate that inscription <inJvstice> o.k. I’m having problems trnaslating the LOTR title page inscirption…hehehe <Maeglin_Lomion> I’ll wait till I’m offline to try it. 🙂 <Lothengriol> same here <inJvstice> I wanted to do so for you so you’d get a sence of it <inJvstice> lets see here <inJvstice> do you see the anga character a little to the right <inJvstice> it has two open bows to the left and a stem the extends down <inJvstice> anga is the third on the second row of the chat <inJvstice> chart <Lothengriol> ok <inJvstice> that stands for j <inJvstice> the next one is h <inJvstice> after that is n <inJvstice> no. 33 on the chart is the h <inJvstice> no. 17 on the chart is n <inJvstice> got me <inJvstice> ? <Lothengriol> e? <inJvstice> first of all do you see these three tengwar on the LOTR title page? <Lothengriol> yes <inJvstice> k <Maeglin_Lomion> Yes <inJvstice> now no. 17 (the one that represnts ‘n’) has a curl above it <Maeglin_Lomion> About 1/3 of the way thru the 1st line <inJvstice> the curl opens to the right <inJvstice> yes thats it <Maeglin_Lomion> What’s the curl thingy? <inJvstice> the curl above the ‘n’ is the tetha for ‘o’ <inJvstice> therefore you have j – h – on <inJvstice> john <Maeglin_Lomion> OK, I see that on the tetha chart <Maeglin_Lomion> John in JRRT 🙂 <inJvstice> since he was writing in English the tetha comes above the following tengwa <inJvstice> yes <inJvstice> then the next word will be ronald <inJvstice> 25, 17, 27, 5 <inJvstice> with the tetha for <inJvstice> ‘o’ and ‘a’ above the 17 and 27 respectivly <inJvstice> still with me here? <Maeglin_Lomion> I follow you <inJvstice> Lothengriol? <Lothengriol> yes, but my paperback and my hardbound have different vowel marks <inJvstice> ohhh <Aeran> me too <inJvstice> ahh aeran is here too <inJvstice> kewl <Aeran> the hardbound makes more sense <inJvstice> prolly easier to read <Lothengriol> clearer <Aeran> wait..maybe they are the same…the first word is ‘of’ Are there two ways to write that? <Maeglin_Lomion> My paperback seems to go along with the chart on the website <inJvstice> there are two ways to write ‘of’ <inJvstice> you can use no. 10 with the rightopening curl to denote ‘of’ <inJvstice> or you can use 14 with the stem extending down and up <inJvstice> which is more phoetically correct…ov <inJvstice> that is the word we write as of, is pronounced oov <inJvstice> ov <inJvstice> the inscription should then be ‘of west march by john ronald ruel tolkien <inJvstice> that is up to the colon about 4 fiths of the way along the top line <inJvstice> http://www.geocities.com/tengwar2001/ <inJvstice> contains a tengwar textbook which is very veyr useful and helpful <inJvstice> stragnely enough I’ve been at this for about an hour now…*-) <Maeglin_Lomion> Thanks for the textbook link! <Aeran> this is great fun <inJvstice> kewl <Lothengriol> thanks for everything <inJvstice> I’m going to end this here for tonight <inJvstice> and assign some homework <Lothengriol> groan <inJvstice> *chuckle* <Aeran> yay <inJvstice> for next week <inJvstice> try to get the title page inscription translated <Aeran> can we check our answers? :)) <inJvstice> it is a good starting point <inJvstice> injvstice at frodocoita.com <Maeglin_Lomion> I know where the cheat links are on that page. 🙂 <inJvstice> lol <inJvstice> yes there is a cheat page online <Maeglin_Lomion> Thanks, inJvstice <Lothengriol> yes, thanks <inJvstice> I have to admit this is hard to do without being able to demonstrate <Lothengriol> you did a great job <Maeglin_Lomion> You did fine! Action: Aeran agrees <inJvstice> *blush* <inJvstice> *chuckle* <inJvstice> well try to get the title page translated, don’t worry about the top of the page that is the Cirith <inJvstice> or Dwarf Runes <Maeglin_Lomion> I’ve downloaded the textbooks in the links to check out at a later time. <inJvstice> I’ll get to those later <Lothengriol> oh, and I was going for extra credit <inJvstice> *chucklE* <inJvstice> o.k. extra credit for the Cirith Action: Maeglin_Lomion graduated from school too long ago…forgot what homework is. 🙂 <inJvstice> well good night and good luck <Maeglin_Lomion> ‘nite <Lothengriol> thanks again <Aeran> thanks, nite <inJvstice> yer welcome
This weekend, Hall of Fire will turn to how Tolkien uses colour as a language to describe the visual and the non-visual in his works, The Silmarillion and The Lord of the Rings, and if relevant, any other of his works.
Many people are drawn to and captivated by Tolkien’s attention to detail and wonderfully visual descriptions of dramatic landscapes, but this is by no means the sole attraction of his writing.
We’ll examine the colours that Tolkien uses to describe certain races. Many of the descriptions of Elves are heavily throughout the Silmarillion, and the other races and their colours are twined through the Lord of the Rings, so we’ll be looking at both works and examining the progression from one to the other.
We’ll also look at Tolkien’s connection of colour with good or evil, and the levels in between. And we’ll touch on how Tolkien often uses an unusual blend of colour and tone to describe landscapes that are visually unique, and border on the surreal.
Finally, we’ll examine Tolkein’s use of colour as adjectives to describe things other than landscapes, such as emotion. Join this weekend for what promises to be a fascinating topic discussion!
Upcoming Topics: August 30-31: Movie spoilers: Love ’em or hate ’em? Why? September 6-7: Feanor – Spirit of Fire September 13-14: RoTK Book 6, Ch 3: Mount Doom September 20-21: The relevancy of Tolkien to the 21st century. September 27-28: RoTK Book 6, Ch 4: The Field of Cormallen October 4-5: Leaf by Niggle
Times: Saturday Chat: 5:30pm ET (17:30) [also 11:30pm (23:30) CET and 7:30am Sunday (07:30) AET]
Sunday Chat: 7:00 pm (19:00) CET [also 1:00pm (13:00) ET and 3:00am (03:00) Monday morning AET]
ET = Eastern Time, USA’s East Coast CET = Central European Time, Central Europe AET = Australian East Coast
Do you have a possible topic for Hall of Fire? Drop us a line at halloffire@theonering.net. And don’t forget that you can check out previous chats here.
