The characterisation of Denethor seems to have ignited both controversy and discussion among Tolkien fans the world over. But is John Noble pleased with the result, and with Return of the King?
“I think the film is a very fine piece of theatrical release cinema,” he says. “Given that you have to constrict the thing to three hours fifteen max, obviously there are things within it that will be expanded upon as in the other ones. However, I think what they’ve done is a beautiful piece of work.”
The film is fresh in his mind, he’s just seen it the day before this interview – a roundtable session in Wellington with Australian and New Zealand press the day before the World Premiere.
“When I saw it yesterday afternoon for the first time,” he tell us. “It didn’t feel like a long film. This is part of the genius of Jackson.”
Still true
Naturally, he’s aware his part is “diminished” from what was filmed.
“When you go and see something and you see some stuff is missing – stuff that you worked your butt off on – you think ‘disappointing’. But then when I went and saw the film, I understood every choice that he’d made. And I thought well, in the greater scheme of things, he’s made the right choices for cinema release.”
And to him, the part still feels true.
“It does [feel true] to me, but subtextually obviously there are things in there that the average viewer … the average viewer is going to need baddies. And Denethor will be seen as a baddie,” he admits.
“Because he does come across as pretty horrible.”
My mind flashes back to something he said in an interview just a few months before in Canberra, which goes to the core of Noble’s work on Rings.
“Obviously the kids are gonna says he’s a shit. But other people might go ‘Oh my god.’ They’ll be moved but they don’t know why because they want to hate him because he’s so cruel. But if they get inside his head and they see what’s going on. It’s horrible stuff. And his relationship with David Wenham and what’s going on there – and [with] Billy.”
But being likeable was never important.
“I don’t really care whether people like Denethor or not. But I do want them to think he’s a very truthful character. And I do want students of film to look at that character and say that is a character of enormous depth.”
“If we can leave a legacy like that, then we’ve done something really good. We spend so much of our time doing crap. Well, not crap, but you go on make a living doing bits and pieces of television and all that. And that’s fine. But it’s a cakewalk compared to this sort of stuff.
“The hardest thing I’ve done in a long time”
“It’s the hardest thing I’ve done for a long time. I did some very hard stageplays when I was back doing stage a lot. Really hard stuff. The trouble with film of course is that it’s done over such a long period of time. On stage you can go there, do it and you’re out of it. Whereas with Denethor particularly, it was all shot out of sequence. They like you to do your death scene first. And what I then had to do was trace back and do a timeline.
“‘That’s how I was in that scene. And so I’ve got to go back, back, back … So how am I here?’
“Even things like … how many days it’s spread over. What are the catalysts that click in? … But going backwards was really strange … And that’s your job. Even though the audience only sees the snippets of your life, your life has been a continuum of descent or ascent, or whatever. And you need to be able to pick that up so it’s almost like a seamless thing. It doesn’t matter how far these things are apart.
“But it is a challenging profession. I made the comment … about when the bar gets lifted – and the bar was lifted [on this production]. And I’m very proud of Denethor. Very proud of what happened. He … upsets me. Here. He really upsets me. But I’m proud of it.
“If … in your life you do one thing that’s some of your best work … we’re lucky people to have done that. And I’ve got no doubt that I’ll do many more, but that to me – because it was so hard – will be the defining one, I think.”
“Don’t you talk nastily about Denethor …”
Back on the day before the premiere in Wellington, John defends the honour of Denethor against one radio reporter who jokes about the bizzareness of him burning his son while “his castle’s being attacked.”
John chuckles as he replies: “Don’t you talk nastily about Denethor, I love him.”
He then continues more seriously. “He’s an amazing character. He’s probably the closest thing to King Lear, which is my one remaining dream to play. I’ve played Gloucester, but I haven’t done Lear yet. And I understand totally what happens when you ‘click’. You just start to make the wrong choices. The paranoia sets in.”
“I guess he’s going to come off as a villian, but I think in time as these films are studied more – and they will be – I think people will have a slightly different perception of him.
“People will see a little bit more of the humanity within him.”
Yet people may at first find it difficult to find humanity within a character in such a state of despair; who – right from the moment we meet him – seems totally wrapped up in his internal pain. John says he doesn’t snap out of it, even when his son returns from Osgiliath riddled with arrows.
“I don’t think he realises he’s being an idiot at all until that last defining moment when he looks down and sees his beautiful son. Up until that time he’s just self obsessed.
“Two lines to redeem yourself”
“And isn’t that the hardest thing in the world?” John asks. “You’ve got two lines to redeem yourself: ‘Faramir, my son’.
“And I used to think about that. And that’s it – that’s the redeeming moment. And it’s a real challenge just to find – while burning – to find this redeeming moment: “Faramir, my son.” But again, for the discerning viewers, eventually that may work.
“[It’s a] terribly emotional scene – and just before that I think he gets up and he’s been hit off the pyre by Gandalf and he gets up and he has this look: ‘No, do not take my son from me.’ It’s agonising.”
I wonder if whether he means agonising to watch, agonising for the character or agonising to portray this sort of emotional and physical extremity. Again, my mind flashes to a comment he made in Canberra.
“There’s a gorgeous line at the funeral pyre – he says something like … he looks down and he says: Why do the fools fly?” I think is the line he says. “Let it burn, for burn we must.”
“It’s an incredibly desolate line he comes out with. Desolate stuff. Bottom of his soul stuff. And yeah, it is demanding. Really demanding to find the truth in that.”
“When Billy sang that song …”
One of the most affecting parts of the Return of the King for many is when Billy Boyd sings for Denethor. Back in Wellington, John mentions that even he found it difficult to keep his composure for that scene.
“When Billy sang that song, you went: ‘Oh my god, that’s so beautiful’. But when I was doing it [the filming], … I started to cry … it was so beautiful.”
“And it was just so poignant to have the counterpointing of those three images of Denethor, Faramir and little Pippin.”
He’s full of praise for the entire sequence.
“I think I’d mentioned to you before that that was in my mind when we did it that that was going to be a great film scene. And I think they’ve done it.”
And if you’re curious about what he was eating – it wasn’t chicken.
“It was quail or something,” John says. “It was very exotic.”
John’s time is up, but he has a few parting words before he moves on.
“It’s an amazing story,” he says. “An amazing story of hope. And I think the reason it’s successful not so much to do with what we’ve done, but with whatever was bloody channelled to Tolkien … to create this enormous metaphor.
“To create this piece of literature is astounding. And that’s why I miss certain lines that aren’t in the film – because they can’t be. Profound. Profound wisdom that JRR had.”
NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC EXPLORES THE FASCINATING PARALLELS BETWEEN REAL-LIFE HISTORY AND THE CHARACTERS, PLACES AND EVENTS BROUGHT TO LIFE IN “THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING”
WASHINGTON — In anticipation of the December 17 release of the third installment of New Line Cinema’s “The Lord of the Rings” film trilogy, National Geographic is releasing its latest “Beyond the Movie” DVD, “Beyond the Movie – The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” in retail stores Tuesday, December 16—one day prior to the release of the feature film. Retailers can pre-order the DVD through Warner Home Video Tuesday, November 18. Consumers can order the film in DVD or VHS directly by calling 1-800-627-5162. The DVD, available for the suggested retail price of $24.98, will be packaged with movie coupons good for up to $5 off admission to see “The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” in theaters for a limited time. Narrated by acclaimed actor John Rhys-Davies (who portrays Gimli in the film trilogy), “Beyond the Movie – The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” features commentary from leading historians, field experts and the cast members themselves, who explore the real-life counterparts to the epic events and characters brought to life in the highly anticipated third installment of “The Lord of the Rings” film trilogy.
Intercut with footage from the three “The Lord of the Rings” films, the DVD offers compelling insight into the timeless human themes that resonate throughout “The Lord of the Rings” and real-life history – from what motivates reluctant heroes to accomplish great deeds for their country to the roles that counselors have played in determining the course of their nation’s future.
From the incorrigible William Wallace, who fought for the freedom of his country, to the brave Theodore Roosevelt, who rose from self-imposed exile to become one of the foremost leaders of his country, “Beyond the Movie – The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” illuminates the parallel personality traits and personal experiences that motivate Aragorn and the other heroes of “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy. Similarly, the DVD analyzes Aragorn’s reluctance to assume the role of king to Queen Elizabeth I’s similar struggle between her personal interests and her duty.
Among other compelling analyses, the DVD traces parallels from the fictional world of “The Lord of the Rings” to historic people and events such as Benjamin Franklin as wise counsel to the United States and Rasputin’s ill-fated influence over the dynastic Romanov family. Supplemented by the cast’s own insight into their characters, “Beyond the Movie — The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” offers an intuitive, riveting perspective on the rich and diverse characters that populate Middle Earth.
Additional DVD features include:
· Photo Gallery · Lord of the Rings Quiz · And exclusive bonus footage not included in the broadcast version of the show “Beyond the Movie – The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King” that premiered on the National Geographic Channel Friday, Dec. 19th.
Fans of the film trilogy can explore the world of Middle Earth even further with “Beyond the Movie – The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring,” which was released in December 2001. Also available in VHS and DVD, the video examines Tolkien’s extraordinary world by delving into the fascinating parallels between real-life myths, events and languages and the fictional world of Middle Earth.
“Beyond the Movie” is an innovative television documentary series from National Geographic Television & Film (NGT&F) created to complement and help audiences explore the most compelling real-life questions inspired by today’s feature films.
Designed as a multi-media initiative to provide rich resources for movie-going audiences, “Beyond the Movie” draws upon the vast resources of the National Geographic Society, including the heralded photo archives, print publications, www.nationalgeographic.com, maps, posters, home video, DVD and classroom materials, to offer greater insight into history, science and natural events for those who love movies and want to know more about the real stories that inspire them. National Geographic Home Video titles are distributed by Warner Home Video (WHV), a Time Warner Company, operating in 57 countries including the United States and Canada. WHV is one of the world’s leading suppliers of pre-recorded videocassettes and videodiscs and is a market leader in family entertainment.
Building on its global reputation for remarkable visuals and compelling stories, NGT&F augments its award-winning documentary productions (122 Emmy Awards and more than 800 other industry awards) with feature films, large-format films and long-form television drama programming. Worldwide, National Geographic’s television programming can be seen on the National Geographic Channel, MSNBC and PBS, home video and DVD, and through international broadcast syndication. The National Geographic Channel is received by more than 200 million households in 25 languages in 146 countries, including the United States. For more information about NGT&F, log on to nationalgeographic.com, AOL Keyword: NatGeo.
archimeaties writes: I just wanted to tell TORn and fans about a very neat gallery I went to today. It’s called Chalk Farm Gallery and is featuring art by Tolkien artsist Ted Nasmith. I was surprised by the sheer amount of his paintings on display; one can spend a decent amount of time looking at them all. The paintings range from small studies to immense landscapes and cover events & people from all three LOTR books and the Silmarillion. There are many original paintings shown, and many are even for sale (one was about $12,000, though!). Framed/unframed prints are also available. I highly recommend the exhibit; some of those paintings absolutely took my breath away! It was very cool to see renowned Toliken art in lil’ old New Mexico.
Contact Info: Chalk Farm Gallery 330 Old Santa Fe Trail Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-983-7125 http://www.chalkfarmgallery.com
Having seen ‘The Return of the King’ we must of course take a closer look at Viggo Mortensens Aragorn. Does the King really return for this movie? Is Strider the Ranger cast aside and Aragorn, King of the Re-United Kingdom, revealed?
We shall also take a closer look at Frodo. How is Frodo of ‘The Return of the King’ compared to the Frodo seen in the first two movies? How is his relationship with Sam changed compared to their relationship in the books?
Upcoming topics:
weekend 100104-110104 Peter Jacksons ‘The Lord of the Rings’; the trilogy as a whole
Times: Saturday Chat: 5:30pm ET (17:30) [also 11:30pm (23:30) CET and 9:30am Sunday (09:30) AET]
Sunday Chat: 7:00 pm (19:00) CET [also 1:00pm (13:00) ET and 5:00am (05:00) Monday morning AET]
ET = Eastern Time, USA’s East Coast CET = Central European Time, Central Europe AET = Australian East Coast
Do you have a possible topic for Hall of Fire? Drop us a line at halloffire@theonering.net
Arhaic, author of “The Dunedain” module for Neverwinter Nights, has recently created another quality LotR module for NWN: LotR: Sons of the Steward. “This module is quite a bit deeper than the original,” Archaic writes, “but it pays the same degree of homage and respect to Tolkien’s source material.”
Summary: It is less than a year until the War of the Ring.
The Stewards rule the kingdom of Gondor from their fortress city of Minas Tirith. It is their charge to safeguard all that they can until the return of the king, but that charge is proving more difficult with each passing day.
From the Dark Lands of the East encroach the armies of Sauron, Enemy of all Free Peoples of Middle-Earth. In recent months they have drawn heavily from Gondor, stealing the forests of Ithilien and putting to the lance all of the Steward’s old allies. The people look past their Steward now to his sons: Boromir and Faramir, Captains of Gondor; the former, a heroic and brazen soldier; the latter a reluctant and thoughtful young lordling.
It will fall to these two brothers to stave off the Enemy’s invasion, salvage what they can, and, in time, be shuffled off the field to make room for the greater players of Middle-Earth -and their greater games.
This module includes the following features:
1. Relates the story of Boromir, Faramir, Denethor, and Mithrandir (Gandalf) about a year before the events in Fellowship of the Ring.
2. Makes thorough (sorry about the hak size!) use of original community content, including Uruk-hai and LotR weaponry.
3. Contains elements appropriate to the Lord of the Rings world. You won’t see magic missle here! However, you will see: a working Horn of Gondor, a many-tiered Minas Tirith, banners of the White Tree and Lidless Eye, Henneth Anun, siege weaponry, etc. All of this is used in contextually appropriate ways. For instance, you won’t find Frodo or Sam anywhere near this module, as Tolkien’s timeline would not have permitted it.
4. Dialogue written with love by an English teacher.
5. Depth and scope beyond that of my decently-rated first module, “LotR: The Dunedain”.
For more information and the module download, go here, and be sure to read the instructions in the ReadMe text file! Enjoy, and let us know what you thought of this module by e-mailing Havens@TheOneRing.net
Ringer Spy Perheniel writes: In Sweden right now there is an ongoing debate of the new translation of Lord of the Rings. The old translation by Åke Ohlmarks from 1959 was heavily criticised by Tolien, and hence two experienced translators, neither of whom has read the book in beforehand, are finally making a new version. Here are some translated parts of an article concerning this in today’s Swedish Daily.
In 2004 we will celebrate the 50th anniversary of the publication of a huge literary undertaking: J.R.R. Tolkien’s “Lord of the Rings”, or “Sagan om Ringen” (“The Tale of the Ring” /P.) as it has been called in Swedish bookstores until now. The new title will be a direct translation from the original (“Ringarnas Härskare”) when Norstedts (a Swedish publishing company /P.) celebrates the jubilee by publishing a completely new Swedish translation of the book.
On the publisher Stephen Farran-Lee´s desk lies a big volume of 976607 letters. It is to be called “Ringens Brödraskap” (the title is a direct translation of “the Fellowship of the Ring” /P.) and each one of this letters will be examined, scrutinised and questioned more than any others since the new Swedish translation of the Bible arrived in 2000.
Why would anyone start such a project? Even if the films have led to an increased interest in Tolkien, had it not been enough just to issue a re-print of the old books?
– No, says Stephen Farran-Lee, you will have to take four deep breaths and just get into it.
The first Swedish translation by Åke Ohlmarks is characterised by arriving very early, in 1959, five years after the original. No one, least of all Ohlmarks himself, realised by then that Tolkien’s fantasy world with its made-up linguistics would be such a success. The thick paperbacks issued by Gebers recognised by most Swedish Tolkien-readers, arrived in 1967. Now the publishing company is planning a sober edition bound with good paper and a protective cover.
– I suppose dragons (on the cover? /P.) would be more attractive to the general public, but we have to show that we are making something new. It is after all a pre-fantasy book, written long before the fantasy genre was formed, and since then our conception of Tolkien has changed through all these images of spiky armour and slanted eyes, says Stephen Farran-Lee.
And just like the great Hollywood production companies hire in stars from each other when they are making a blockbuster, Norstedts has engaged authors Erik Andersson And Lotta Olsson from the Bonnier publishing house. They are to give the new, sober edition a sense of Swedish linguistics – and that will presumably give a more sober feel to the reader than the imaginative, fierce and very free composition by Ohlmarks.
Lotta Olsson is known for her abilities in writing metrics and will translate the volume’s songs and poems. The man responsible for the remaining three million or so letters will be Erik Andersson, an experienced translator who has made 35 interpretations of English literary works. He is also a writer, previously an editor of a Swedish paper, and has plenty of revision experience. The publishing company claims he has feeling for the humour and tweed-drenched tone in the sub-twists of Tolkien’s writing.
He seems to take it easy, anyway, in his home of Västra Bodarne. That is the name of Erik Andersson’s own Hobbinge, for that is the name he plans to give to the hometown of the hobbits (Hobsala in Ohlmarks’ translation).
In contrast to the Bible translators, Erik Andersson has the author’s own instructions to follow. Ohlmarks, however, did not, as the Dutch and the Swedish translations were the first ones to arrive. When the volume was to be translated into German, Tolkien himself wrote a lengthy translation guide where he among other things rejected several of the linguistic solutions of the Swedish edition.
Erik Andersson is well aware of the difficulties in being compared to Ohlmarks.
– As a creation in its own right it is excellent, even if it does not always follow Tolkien; you have to be modest when you criticise careless mistakes and such. And many people will probably be disappointed in my version. It is like the Bible: you’ve got used to older editions and even if the translation is wrong you don’t care.
Issues of style are something that occupies both authors. Lotta Olsson is careful about keeping the metre and tries to preserve differences between the heroic poems and the more casual, home-styled songs. To do one after the other, however, becomes slightly monotonous, and some poems verge on pastiches.
– There are lots of mirror-like lakes and glimmering stars.
The style also changes as you get further into the book, Erik Andersson points out.
– It starts out as a children’s book, as a continuation of “Bilbo”, with a Birthday party. Then the story progresses into a more sinister mode.
And the characters can use different types of style as well.
– Take the Vidstige (Strider/ P.) character, for instance, he changes all the time. Sometimes the language he uses gives a glimpse of his identity as the great king Aragorn.
Names of people and places are something that demands a lot of thought, but there the author has supplied plenty of guidance. One example is Rivendell, translated by Ohlmarks as Vattnadal (“water-valley” /P.). Tolkien rejects this, as the name should contain the element riven, meaning “cleft”, not river.
– It is a pity, for it’s a great name. And it will be hard to compete with using klevor (old swedish, of cleft /P.) etc. Right now I call Rivendell Klovedal, and people might find that hard to get used to.
The names might change – the big list of names has just been finished, so now it can be circulated for comments, says Erik Andersson, sounding like a representative for some authority responsible for place-names. The list will in this case be sent to the Tokien experts Anders Stenström and Leif Jacobsen. Stenström is the publisher of the Tolkien paper Arda.
Other possible name-changes mentioned in this article:
Frodo Bagger becomes Frodo Secker, as bagger (ancient norse for sack) is in modern Swedish more related to rams (“bagge”) than sacks. Mörkmården (Mirkwood) becomes Mörkveden, reminding the reader that this is indeed a wood (“ved” = wood), not anything else (“mård” = fur).
The full story (in Swedish) can be found at svd.se, where also old articles on the same theme can be found by using the SvD search engine.
