Hall of Fire chat log: Can we bear Beorn
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Can we bear Beorn?
Session Start: Sun Aug 18 07:24:09 2013
Session Ident: #thehalloffire
* Now talking in #thehalloffire
* Demosthenes changes topic to ‘The HOF topic this weekend: Can we bear Beorn? | General TORn chat thataway! click –] #theonering.net’
[Demosthenes] Okay, let’s kick this topic off.
[Jenniearcheo] Pretty much, this is my main contribution to the discussion:
[Demosthenes] poor mikael
[JamesOfTheNorth] Hello all. my first Hall of Fire chat 🙂
[morro91] as it is for me 🙂
[Jenniearcheo] And the fact that Mr. DelToro was a writer for Beauty and the Beast is an interesting degree of separation
[Curufinwe] Hello Jamesofthenorth
[Dovanar] hi !
[LadyMoonScar] first time in Hall of Fire
[Jenniearcheo] Not GDT, GRRM
[TFDrums] hi everyone
[Jenniearcheo] Hi LadyMoonScar
[JamesOfTheNorth] Greetings Demosthenes and Curufinwe
[Jenniearcheo] So, my opinion on Beorn is that we can’t really see much of him in that odd grainy photo and I’ll render my verdict in December.
[Raurenkili] hey, good to see a Legolas fangirl 😀
[Jenniearcheo] Hi, buyee
[Jenniearcheo] Have fun, folks.
[Demosthenes] seeya jennie!
[legolas_girl] 😀 thz Raurenkili
[legolas_girl] how r u? raurenkili
[Raurenkili] I too, am one although not crazily obassesed
[LadyMoonScar] let’s get this party started!
[JamesOfTheNorth] I haven’t seen any pics and I don’t want to. Waiting for the film.
[Raurenkili] I’m good 😀
[Puma] gday Darkover
[Darkover] Hi, Demosthenes and Puma!
[Darkover] Hello, All!
[m_stanto] hello all
[Dovanar] it’s a low definition pic JamesOfTheNorth
[LadyMoonScar] was up!
[Demosthenes] Hey Darkover. We’re just starting now.
[Darkover] Forgive me, what is the topic?
[LadyMoonScar] Cool or Uncool
[Darkover] Oh, yes, thanks, LadyMoonScar
[Raurenkili] start with that
[Demosthenes] Darkover: Beorn. “can we bear Beorn?” is the question of the day.
[Puma] and it depends what pj does to beorn
[Dovanar] i can’t see his beard so i don’t know if he is cool or not
[Demosthenes] Since Tolkien is the ultimate visual inspiration, I thought i might begin by refreshing peoplke about his description.
[LadyMoonScar] First thing that popped into my head; holy crap, what is Andrew Llyod Webber’s Cats doing in a HOBBIT movie?
[Puma] beorn is good….but is sure not a nice person
[Demosthenes] ?He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard?
[Demosthenes] This is what Gandalf tells Bilbo
[Dovanar] a great beard yes indeed !!!
[Dovanar] no beard no cool
[m_stanto] Its a really low res pic… and to me if he had made him to close to what we envisioned he would look like another dwarf…
[Demosthenes] Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came. Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North.
[Raurenkili] No Beard, no cool 😉
[Demosthenes] So it might be interesting to start by asking … How do /you/ envision that?
[morro91] personally, ive never had a true image of beorn in my head for some reason, curious given hes well described, meaning personally, im not going to worry too much what looks like, so yes i can bear it, even if he has no beard
[Darkover] Either way, one of a kind
[Puma] and jrr said in letters that Beorn is a man
[Moriel] As much as I’m not a fan of beards, Beorn needs to have a huge bushy black one.
[Demosthenes] puma: a bit of a magician, but still a man.
[Curufinwe] and a bear?
[Nedrui] He’s a man, just bigger and stronger…it’s also in HOME. It’s not a Hedgehog haired man…I think…
[Darkover] I always envisioned a very big, very burly man, with very dark hair and dark eyes, possibly with a lot of body hair, possibly not, but definitely with a shaggy mane of dark hair, and a long full beard.
[Demosthenes] So when you all think of Beorn, what comes to your mind?
[Dovanar] yep a huge bushy black beard Moriel
[Erewen] I imagined him as taller and bulkier then other men and perhaps slightly hairier but nothing definate
[Will] me too Dovanar
[Puma] i imagine a big strong hairy guy
[JamesOfTheNorth] I always imagined Beorn as looking like the English actor Brian Blessed, if any of you know who I mean 🙂
[Raurenkili] Black beard
[Demosthenes] Tall? Broad?
[ethan] First thing when you think of Born
[Raurenkili] lots of body hair
[Darkover] With a deep voice, too, for some reason
[Raurenkili] tall, burly
[Nedrui] Personally I have some probs with the movies…it wouldn’t be that dificult to stay true to the canone
[LadyMoonScar] I imagine a big, muscled guy. Really hairy, more stubble than a beard- it works for Kili- and always scowling
[Erewen] yeah Brian Blessed seems about right
[ethan] hes half man half bear half born
[Raurenkili] wide shoulders, dark cool eyes, but with a twinkle behind them
[m_stanto] I would think similar to a bear broad, and considering a black bear not super tall and alot of hair
[Puma] Beorn is very impolite
[Darkover] JamesOfTheNorth, I do know what you mean. Except that I envisioned him as being rather bigger and hairier than Brian Blessed.
[Demosthenes] LadyMoonScar: muscled would go with “great” and “strong”
[morro91] i imagine sticking to canon for PJ would be boring
[Dovanar] sorry but i imagined him like this guy : http://a405.idata.over-blog.com/5/92/13/20/harryetfleur_425490303_eclair_WEB.jpg
[JamesOfTheNorth] If that’s even possible Demosthenes hehe
[Puma] i imagine beorn the size of boromir
[Curufinwe] He is hot tempered too I imagine
[LadyMoonScar] less hairy than Hagrid, but yeah
[m_stanto] Beorn and Hagred(sp?) LOL
[Darkover] Donovar, Hagrid is too roly-poly and too pleasantly gregarious to fit my idea of Beorn
[Raurenkili] yes, scowling, but with a twinkle behind his eyes
[Puma] but beorn can also be very cruel
[morro91] there are also the wildmen in TTT that beorn/hagrid are similar to
[Puma] and is in the hobbit
[Demosthenes] That’s interesting, because Beorn is GRUFF and STANDOFFISH
[Darkover] Only to orcs and others who were trying to kill his animals, Puma
[LadyMoonScar] yeah, to Orcs and whoever ticks him off
[Demosthenes] He’s not cute, he’s not tame.
[miriel] Beorn could have been really scary, if tolkien had not added some “I-am-not-dangerous-to-you” stuff in (like the teasing of Bilbo)
[Darkover] Good observation, Demosthenes. “He’s not tame.”
[Demosthenes] To what extent does your personal vision of Beorn encompass this … lack of tameness?
[miriel] he is somehow a bit of an …adult, so to say
[Demosthenes] This inner-wildness that comes across in the chapter Queer Lodgings?
[Erewen] I always imagined Beorn as not bad but because he is so isolated not the best with social skills hence the frank way in which he talks
[Puma] Darkover.to find out if the dwarf story was true.he caught a warg and an orc….tortured them to find out story.then skinned wark.cut off orc head.and displayed them at his home.that is cruel in my book
[LadyMoonScar] “Little bunny is getting nice and fat again”
[Puma] skinned warg
[Demosthenes] LadyMoonScar: yes. and “Beorn made a terrible enemy”.
[miriel] talking down to the company, but in a kind way, makes him less scary to the reader
[Darkover] He’s no teddy bear. He can be generous, even friendly, but don’t get on his bad side. And never take him for granted, I think.
[LadyMoonScar] I hope that put that ‘bunny’ quote in the movie
[Dovanar] okay what about Ragnar Lodbrok !?? does he make a good Beorn ??
[miriel] LadyMoonScar: indeed
[Puma] so as is usual in jrr good and evil are not black and white.but grey
[Demosthenes] On the other hand, think of the derivation of his name.
[miriel] Björn = swedish Bear
[Curufinwe] Beorn perhaps has trust issues
[Raurenkili] they need bunny qoute
[Puma] beorn means both bear and warrior
[Darkover] Puma, Beorn and his animals are out in the middle of nowhere, and he doesn’t want orcs in his territory. So, he does things like that to make them think twice about invading his area. In Beorn’s place, I might do the same.
[miriel] the bunny quote would be awesome, if they can work it in naturally
[Raurenkili] only, I hope they don’t make his voice TOO booming, like a nazgul, or something loud and snarly
[Puma] i am not saying beorn is wrong darkover.just that it is still cruel
[Demosthenes] And there are close relations to the Beowulf saga
[Demosthenes] Beorn the bee-keeper
[Tajik] Sorry for the late arrival: this is the Beorn Identity discussion, right?
[Darkover] I didn’t know that his name meant both “bear” and “warrior,” but it is certainly appropriate.
[Dovanar] guys if beorn will look like sonic i quit been a Tolkien fan !! :s
[Darkover] Right, Tajik
[Puma] beorn is one of few in middle earth.that does not eat meat
[Demosthenes] And he doesn;t eat meat. Beorn is a vegetarian.
[Darkover] Maybe in the glimpse we saw of him, Beorn was in mid-change
[morro91] my viewpoint is that Beorn of the films will have multiple human forms (even multiple bear forms), but when he ‘shapeshifts’, he cant quite remember how his hair went, or how long his beard was, and that each time he ‘shapeshifts’, he appears differently, rather than having one exact human form.
[miriel] loadsss of honey 😀
[Puma] i thought so also Darkover
[miriel] I hope we will see bees
[Puma] giant bees
[Tajik] Could be; let’s not forget we only have one blurry image to go from
[JamesOfTheNorth] How tall is Beorn meant to be? I remember the quote about his tunic going down to his knees, and Bilblo being able to walk under it. This would make Beorn about 12 feet tall!
[Demosthenes] He is: appalling when he is angry, though kind enough if humoured
[Raurenkili] for latecomers
[Demosthenes] It’s an interesting dichotomy of personality.
[miriel] do you think they will skip the long “add-one-dwarf-at-a-time” introduction?
[Puma] in the hobbit.orcs were not all bad….nor beorn all good
[miriel] the story is epic, but it takes loads of time
[Tajik] Well, they shortened the dwarves arrivals at Bilbo’s
[Darkover] He sounds like a good guy if you stay on his good side, and you are no threat to him or to his animals. But I suspect that if you get on his bad side, he has no mercy.
[Raurenkili] probably to save time
[miriel] also shortened with the trolls
[morro91] they seem to race into beorns place, being chased by a bear/beorn
[Darkover] I suspect he also has a long memory.
[miriel] morro91 good point
[Tajik] so I wouldn’t be surprised if they jumped a few dwarves
[Curufinwe] I hope they make a nod to that scene in the book, if not include it
[Dovanar] in movies things become short miriel Tajik
[Demosthenes] Darkover: and i think all this factors into our impressions of how he should look, and how he ought to act.
[Tajik] Yes, yes they do
[Demosthenes] In our mind’s eye.
[Raurenkili] yeah Curufinwe
[Puma] or longer whenever pj wants
[Darkover] Agreed, Demosthenes
[Tajik] lol Puma
[miriel] actually, he is described a lot more than the dwarves
[Puma] beorn in battle should be like a norse beserker
[Tajik] Has anyone asked the essential question: Does Beorn sit in the woods?
[Dovanar] can’t imagin him without a beard !
[Dovanar] puma like a norse https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/562310_654761447886860_1109785257_n.jpg
[miriel] but if that makes it more difficult or easier to adapt him to cinema —no clue
[Demosthenes] Which kinda brings us to last Friday, when a low-res image of PJ’s Beorn found its way onto the interwebs.
[Tajik] Has anyone seen the original on the back of the calendar?
[Puma] too blonde Dovanar
[Demosthenes] Which I assume most, if not all of you, have seen.
[Raurenkili] interwebs, love that term!
[Dovanar] with black hair and beard 😛
[miriel] very hard to tell colours, I think the photo was discoloured
[morro91] im sure they wouldve done a lot of concept art + makeup/hair tests with beorn, perhaps more than any other character
[Darkover] At least PJ doesn’t seem to be making any changes just for change’s sake. I wouldn’t have liked it if Beorn had blond hair, for example.
[miriel] he might be much fairer, or much, I dunno, browner?
[Puma] its very hard to make actors look as they did in jrr
[Demosthenes] Mmmm. So .. the first question is: How did that image concord, or discord with your personal idea of Beorn?
[Tajik] Who is playing Beorn again?
[Puma] some you can.others you will fail
[JamesOfTheNorth] Even if they release an official image (which would be a great shame), I won’t be seeing it. I want to go into the film without knowing what he’ll look like
[Darkover] True, Puma. But Beorn should at least have dark hair.
[Dovanar] Darkover https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/562310_654761447886860_1109785257_n.jpg
[Demosthenes] tajik: mikael persbrandt
[idril] Mikael Persbrandt
[Tajik] What else have we seen him in?
[Puma] yes.dark hair…….i agree
[Erewen] They might have his hair colour the same as his bear forms pelt
[Raurenkili] it discorded greatly
[Darkover] just clicked on your link, Donovar. The look in this guy’s eyes could be Beorn, but he should have dark hair.
[Demosthenes] Raurenkili: not what you thought of at all?
[lunarising] It didn’t look anything at all like I imagined him
[Tajik] I was mostly concerned with his size more than anything else
[Puma] i think in movie he will look more grizzly bear than black bear
[Curufinwe] I don’t want to think to much about the photo, as it’s early days and I think we’ll get a better look in the coming weeks. Thorin for me looks perfect, I think PJ and the team have an ability to visual characters as perhaps fans of the book do. So I’m not worried or alarmed by the big hair 😉
[Demosthenes] pums: was it anything like you thought?
[Tajik] so more West coast than East coast hip hop, Puma ?
[lunarising] I pictured him kind of like Brutus from the old Popeye cartoons but with a friendlier face
[miriel] I would like a brown-haired beorn, but I don’t really know otherwise. Will probably work/not work once he is moving
[Demosthenes] lunarising: is that something you might have preferred to see?
[sunshower] lol–that’l work lunarising!
[miriel] a photo (especially this) is very hard to judge
[Darkover] Beorn should also be very well-muscled, or is that stating the obvious?
[Puma] well….if pj uses a real bear in scenes.bart the bear is out there
[LadyMoonScar] Brutus gave me nightmares as a kid
[Curufinwe] I heard they got Yogi in Puma
[lunarising] Dem: something like that yes – just large and dark and very muscley
[miriel] Darkover: agreed
[lunarising] thanks sunshower
[Puma] and beorn must be ill mannered as he is in book
[Tajik] and menacing, let’s not forget the menacing side to his character
[LadyMoonScar] do you think PJ gave Beorn a little back-story?
[miriel] now, casting can usually tell us at least something. Why Mikael Persbrandt? What qualities does he have that PJ liked for Beorn?
[Demosthenes] http://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/beorn-human-form.jpg if anyone needs to refresh their memory, this is the image. warning: spoiler.
[Darkover] But he probably has a sort of paternal streak as well, else all his animals wouldn’t trust him.
[lunarising] yes I guess that’s why I imagined Brutus – he was the most menacing mean thing from my childhood and always stuck with me
[morro91] the size of the set of beorns house should give an indication of his size
[Raurenkili] a little too short, but the greatest disappointment was the hair, did NOT imagine a muulut
[Darkover] mullet, Raurenkili?
[Tajik] paternal with animals; less so dwarves and Hobbits
[miriel] is it just me or is his face painted?
[Dovanar] not the hair
[Dovanar] not sonic …
[Darkover] Anyway, I doubt if that is how Beorn normally looks–as I said earlier, I suspect he was meant to be in mid-change in that photo
[Demosthenes] Is it the hair that really perturbs people?
[Puma] some scholars think beorns character is right out of norse sagas..but i forget name
[Curufinwe] he’s definitely got to have that old Viking Nordic look about him, hairy, muscles, chopping wood
[miriel] yes, it is too spiky
[Dovanar] yes it’s the hair
[Demosthenes] Is everything else “okay”?
[morro91] i doubt he was in mid-change, why would a promotional photo be taken of that?
[lunarising] Darkover: but why would he be chopping wood and changing daylight?
[Tajik] no beard!
[Dovanar] that hair don’t fit a good beard !
[Tajik] He needs a beard
[morro91] promotional photos rarely include effects
[Dovanar] if no beard no cool
[Darkover] Was it specifically a promotional photo?
[Raurenkili] aside from lack of body hair
[lunarising] Beard and no mane
[LadyMoonScar] it’s the back hair/mane that kills it for me
[lunarising] bears don’t have manes
[Tajik] not promo, but from a calendar
[idril] same as me
[Dovanar] imagine sonic with a beard …that’s beron
[miriel] for some reason, I think of Beorn with trousers that end under the knee, but that is just me
[Demosthenes] Darkover: it is a calendar photo. that would make it by definition promotional.
[Raurenkili] I know, couldn’t see his beard
[Dovanar] beorn !!
[morro91] it was on the calendar with photos no doubt same as promotional
[Puma] to me that photo seems mid change
[lunarising] or Paul Bunyan!
[Darkover] okay, t hanks Demosthenes
[Demosthenes] http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Beorn-by-John-Howe-228×300.jpg how do you think it compares against this version by John Howe?
[JamesOfTheNorth] Do we need to see him change in the film? There was no mention of it in the book
[Raurenkili] besides, I imagined his hair to be “wild and tangly” not straight back
[Curufinwe] We can’t see much by that picture, what we need is a full frontal.
[Tajik] oh, THAT type of promotional
[miriel] puma: that would be an interesting idea, actually
[LadyMoonScar] i like John Howe’s drawing better
[Tajik] full frontal (LOL)
[JamesOfTheNorth] All was had was a description of him in “man form”
[Raurenkili] that’s a little better
[Demosthenes] LadyMoonScar: what do you prefer about it?
[idril] i like that pic way better Demosthenes
[Dovanar] yes John Howe’s version is away better !!
[Puma] dont like that pic Demz
[Dovanar] no creepy hair and a long strong beard
[LadyMoonScar] it looks better
[Demosthenes] no puma?
[Tajik] Paul Bunyan is based on Joe Montferrand
[Puma] not at all
[miriel] JH is a genious when he draws, it is better
[lunarising] I can totally believe John Howe’s picture
[Puma] scale is wrong
[Darkover] I like John Howe’s drawing, too. Kind of like Conan the Barbarian. I don’t imagine Beorn needing an axe, though.
[Tajik] how does he chop wood?
[LadyMoonScar] Beorn with Dwalin’s hand-armor
[Puma] john howe is a fine artist.however he never follows the word of jrr and gets almost all his pics wrong
[Raurenkili] scale Puma? bigger or smaller?
[miriel] is that a Bear in the background of the Beorn pic, btw?
[Darkover] Tajik, in the picture, that doesn’t look like a wood-chopping axe, it looks like a war axe. Which Beorn wouldn’t need.
[idril] i like john howe’s art. just not his drawing of smaug
[Puma] beorn is not numenorean size
[Raurenkili] yes, definitely
[Demosthenes] https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdy34yVMK71rss2pho1_1280.jpg what about this sketch bhy, i believe, alan lee?
[miriel] or is it a rock….. *squints*
[LadyMoonScar] maybe a badger?
[Tajik] I like that sketch
[lunarising] oh I like that Curufinwe
[Darkover] Alan Lee’s sketch is even better.
[Raurenkili] um, maybe
[Dovanar] Curufinwe ! i love you
[Raurenkili] first one darker
[miriel] the scetch is the best so far
[Puma] that 1 is pretty good Demz
[Tajik] Is that a rock in your pants, or a badger, Beorn?
[lunarising] the one Dem showed demonstrates the scale pretty well
[Tajik] sorry, couldn’t stop myself from typing…will refrain from now on
[idril] i like that sketch
[Demosthenes] okay, now the kicker … https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/6be9663172ee28829b4a20b87cb0337f/tumblr_mlcdyc4Ygx1rss2pho1_500.jpg what about this one the fella with the deepset eyes on the right who dominates the image?
[Curufinwe] Think he’d he a big bigger than a normal person.
[miriel] the John Howe has a Norwegian-trolls feeling, while the Lee is more middle-earthy, IMHO
[Demosthenes] This sketch is by BOTH John Howe and Alan Lee.
[LadyMoonScar] i like it. Beorn’s a little smaller than i imagine, but i dig it
[idril] good point miriel i agree
[Dovanar] where is beorn in that pic Demosthenes ?
[Puma] dont like that one much Demz
[Darkover] No, actually, in that sketch, he doesn’t look like my impression of Beorn. That sketch looks more like a younger Saruman to me.
[Darkover] Just my opinion.
[Demosthenes] Above the dwarf
[miriel] not the last one, disliking
[Raurenkili] looks too old
[Dovanar] he look so old
[morro91] agree with younger saruman
[LadyMoonScar] awesome sketch, but kinda freaky
[Raurenkili] yes, Miri
[miriel] he looks too elf-like
[Raurenkili] freaky yes
[Demosthenes] Aha. Now, I actually think Beorn will come out a fair bit like that.
[Curufinwe] How old is Beorn
[Elrenia] Hi everyone
[Raurenkili] he looks evil!\
[LadyMoonScar] young Saruman, totally
[Dovanar] hi Elrenia
[Darkover] Hi, Elrenia
[Raurenkili] hi Elrenia
[Puma] beorns age is unknown
[lunarising] it’s ok – he looks more like a reallllllly old Sauruman
[Demosthenes] Raurenkili: but we agreed Beorn is not tame?
[miriel] hi ElenGalad
[Curufinwe] does he have a long lifespan? Like a normal person
[LadyMoonScar] hey, yo!
[miriel] * Elrenia
[Raurenkili] but he looks old and fell….
[Puma] well.he dies
[Darkover] Beorn is definitely not tame
[Demosthenes] fell. that is a good word.
[Tajik] Agreed: he shouldn’t be kempt.
[miriel] Curufinwe a long lifetime, I think
[Demosthenes] Could Beorn be old/aged?
[Curufinwe] longer than a dwarf?
[Puma] his son grimbeorn succeeds him
[LadyMoonScar] i think he’s in his prime in HOBBIT
[Raurenkili] he lived on much longer after
[Puma] jrr said beorn is a man
[miriel] I always read him as prime, or a few years after
[Dovanar] beorn = a bigger dwarf
[Raurenkili] his Prime
[Elrenia] The topic is Beorn today?
[Curufinwe] I like the idea he is descended from Beren
[Puma] so i would think more or less a human lifespan
[Elrenia] Woohoo a topic I actually know something about
[Demosthenes] puma: To me that Lee/Howe sketch has a very … nordic feel.
[morro91] anyone think PJ might make beorn the last of his kind?
[Tajik] would his shapeshifter abilities lengthen or shorten his lifespan?
[miriel] Demosthenes: the Howe alone felt more nordic to me 😉
[Elrenia] Yep I’ve then that picture
[Puma] i only liked the 1 pic Demz
[Demosthenes] And consider the origin of the name. Beowulf.
[idril] i think lengthen Tajik
[LadyMoonScar] that’s what Beorn is, right?
[Raurenkili] dying out and desperate, miriel?
[Demosthenes] I wonder if that’s where they are coming from?
[Curufinwe] I’d of thought since he is a little bit magical in the sense he can shapeshift that he is blessed with longer life
[Raurenkili] morro I meant
[morro91] not sure why he’d be desperate?
[Curufinwe] who gave him that ability? was he born with it, is like a werewolf curse?
[Tajik] so he’s got Jacob on the run, then?
[Raurenkili] yes, Curufinwe
[Puma] Beorn was an example of jrr solving a philological problem……since beorn means both bear and warrior….jrr showed why in his own way
[Raurenkili] wait earlier one Curu-
[Erewen] gtg bye
[Darkover] bye, erewen
[Puma] jrr always starts with a word……and gives it a story
[idril] bye Erewen!
[LadyMoonScar] bye Erewen
[Tajik] He does this with most of his characters, right? Like Bilbo Baggins?
[Curufinwe] is Beorn a Werebear?
[Raurenkili] yes, good point Pums
[idril] lol werebear
[Puma] yes tajik
[Demosthenes] So … do you think there are elements of those sketches in the low-resolution pictures that we saw?
[LadyMoonScar] i prefer saying Shifter
[Darkover] I always thought he was a “werebear.” Tolkien called him a shapeshifter.
[Demosthenes] (Or am I crazy?)
[Puma] and no beorn is not a werebear
[lunarising] mmm not really
[Darkover] Isn’t he by definition, Puma?
[Tajik] nor a Carebear
[Raurenkili] NO WEREBEAR
[Puma] not in jrr
[Raurenkili] no carebears
[Darkover] definitely not a carebear!
[idril] carebear 😛
[lunarising] I kinda like werebear lol
[Tajik] Werebear stare!
[LadyMoonScar] srsly? a carebear?
[Puma] were in jrr means a body occupied by a foreign spirit not its own
[Curufinwe] when the group are staying with him, they are told not to go outside at night – (while he is in bear form) does that mean he cannot control his actions when he is in that form?
[Raurenkili] no lol
[Demosthenes] Curufinwe: in the trailer, we see A BEAR attack the group.
[Puma] no Curufinwe
[Demosthenes] And that’s another interesting thought.
[Tajik] don’t think he is confident he will control himself in that form
[Raurenkili] he was with OTHER bears
[Raurenkili] at night
[Puma] just that beoen said not to go outside.and he means it
[morro91] he may just think intruders
[Demosthenes] Raurenkili: indeed he was.
[lunarising] hebert = abear
[miriel] could be another bear
[Demosthenes] miriel: it could be!
[idril] no curufinwe i think its cuz there are o many bears out there and beorn doesnt want one of them freaking out
[Tajik] It’s a teddybear picnic!
[Puma] he was in control in bear form at bo5a
[lunarising] they had a bear moot
[LadyMoonScar] miriel that’s what i think
[Darkover] I think Beorn can control his actions regardless of what form he is in, but he was meeting with other bears, too, and probably couldn’t be responsible for the safety of his guests if they left the hall.
[Curufinwe] lol bears freaking out
[Demosthenes] puma: true also!
[iloveunicorns] i always thought kili and fili would get into mischief and go outside… sure would be interesting!
[Tajik] true, Puma
[miriel] he could just rush in, growl down the other bear, then turn human and shock the company (minus Gandalf)
[Darkover] Besides, at that point, he wasn’t entirely sure how trustworthy they were. He was taking Gandalf’s word for it.
[LadyMoonScar] that’d be cool
[miriel] would be a very nice intro
[Demosthenes] Darkover: i like that; that’s probably my interpretation too.
[Curufinwe] So by what Puma just said, that means he probably meant to protect the group from the other bears?
[Dovanar] the other bears can turn human too ?
[Darkover] thank you, Demosthenes
[miriel] indeed Darkover
[Puma] beorn did not take them as friends till after his torture and trophy hunting episode
[Tajik] how far into the movie can we expect to run into Beorn?
[Darkover] Then he knew that they had spoken the truth.
[morro91] very soon
[idril] i dont think so but maybe Dovanar
[iloveunicorns] hopefully in the beginning!
[LadyMoonScar] probably the beginning
[Curufinwe] Early on Tajik
[Puma] i think Beorn did not want them all outside with is tame animals
[Dovanar] the bears from that night are juste normal bears ?
[Puma] yes Dovanar
[idril] at the beginning Tajik cuz the finished AUJ @ the Carrock
[Raurenkili] Dovanar, regular bears
[Curufinwe] dancing bears
[morro91] though originally in 2-film version, beorn wouldve appeared 3/4 through, probably a quick stop. now its the beginning, probably meaning in pick-ups they did a fair bit of new dialogue there re-establishing the plot
[Curufinwe] and beorn is lord of the dance 😉
[idril] new movie: Dancing with Bears
[iloveunicorns] Curufinwe: like in disney’s robin hood…
[Tajik] will we be meeting him in his bear form first or in his human form?
[LadyMoonScar] ooh da lally!
[Curufinwe] human form
[Puma] jrr hated disney
[Darkover] If PJ follows the book, he will be in human form first.
[idril] with an intense hatred
[Dovanar] i think both
[Curufinwe] I think there will be a big build up in the film to the discovery that Beorn is also a bear
[Curufinwe] as there are many film fans who have not read the book
[Dovanar] he was following them to the mirkwood forest so we might see him as a Bear !
[Curufinwe] and will not be expecting it
[LadyMoonScar] Puma i never knew that. where did you hear that?
[Puma] well.in the trailer beorn is in it
[Tajik] was my thoughts, Dovanar
[morro91] perhaps beorn is epxanded in the film, and fights in the barrel action sequence
[Puma] big bear breaking in door
[Curufinwe] To film fans though Puma, that is simply just a bear
[Puma] and in letters of jrr Ladymoonstar
[LadyMoonScar] does anyone know when the next trailer is? might see a bit more Beorn
[Tajik] good thing Disney never got the rights to Tolkien’s works
[Demosthenes] LadyMoonScar: unknown right now.
[Curufinwe] A big deal will be made of his shapeshifting you mark my words
[Tajik] full-frontal Beorn, LadyMoonScar ?
[morro91] given the barrels were originally the end of film #1, a big action sequence with dwarves, orcs and elves, maybe beorn. given that all he does is pop up, and pj doesnt like that
[Puma] there is an important song in the beorn chapter in the hobbit
[iloveunicorns] Even if he is exactly how he looks in the picture, he still saves Thorin and carries him out of the battle in BoFA so he can’t be THAT scary…
[Elrenia] I’m back
[Curufinwe] Which is that song?
[Dovanar] there was only one trailer for the first part ! am i right ? no ?
[Raurenkili] yes, song?
[Darkover] welcome back, Elrenia
[Curufinwe] would you mind reciting some 🙂
[Puma] the wind song.same meter and tempo as misty mtns cold
[idril] he is scary to those who oppose him iloveunicorns
[LadyMoonScar] the wind was on the withered heath
[Tajik] sung by the dwarves, right?
[iloveunicorns] true! 🙂
[Puma] yes.that song
[LadyMoonScar] but in the forest stirred no leaf
[Puma] yes tajik
[LadyMoonScar] there shadows lay by night and day
[LadyMoonScar] and dark things silent creapt beneath
[Demosthenes] I have a different question: do you feel that the spy picture gives us any indications as to Beorn’s attitude and personality? The production does use character design as a visual cue for that sort of thing, I feel.
[Raurenkili] in The Hobbit?
[LadyMoonScar] the wind came down from mountains cold
[Puma] its about the wind gaining strangth as it goes east….and then up to heaven….its a dwarven wind….in some ways showing the outcome
[Darkover] Well, he doesn’t look very happy or friendly in the photo
[LadyMoonScar] and like a tide it roared and rolled
[Tajik] I think the spy pic shows some of his brute force, and animal nature
[Demosthenes] Darkover: i thought he looked fairly relaxed.
[Curufinwe] Demonsthenes as I mentioned earlier, we need full-frontal
[LadyMoonScar] the branches groaned, the forest moaned
[Puma] i dont think that pic means much Demz
[Darkover] There are horses in the background, though. A reminder that he is the protector of these animals?
[Puma] i will wait and see
[LadyMoonScar] and leaves were laid upon the mould
[Dovanar] i cannot judge that picture we only see his hair ! and i don’t like it :p
[LadyMoonScar] the wind went on from West to East
[Tajik] why does will always come up in a diff font colour?
[LadyMoonScar] all movement in the forest ceased
[Darkover] Relaxed isn’t the word that came to mind when I saw him. What I can see of his face, he looks grim, to me.
[idril] i didnt see horses all i saw were goats
[Demosthenes] puma: now that’s curious too. lots and lots of people 60% according to our poll are happy to wait and see.
[Puma] ladymoonstar.you have it.its very important song
[LadyMoonScar] but shrill and harsh across the marsh
[Raurenkili] me too, wait…
[idril] because will is a person in the chat
[LadyMoonScar] its whistling voices were released
[Raurenkili] wiat and see
[Dovanar] i think he got some hair on his face !
[Dovanar] according to the pic
[LadyMoonScar] the grasses hissed, their tassles bent
[Demosthenes] Dovanar: i suspect you are right.
[LadyMoonScar] the reeds were rattling- on it went
[Puma] Demz.all here know how i feel about what pj does to jrr…but even i cant judge on that 1 pic
[LadyMoonScar] o’er shaken pool under heavens cool
[LadyMoonScar] where racing clouds were torn and rent
[LadyMoonScar] it passes the lonely Mountain bare
[morro91] in hobbit blog 8, the last scene they did involves gandalf and 2 blurred out characters from the crowd, one is radagast, there is another which I cant be certain, but am leaning towards it being Beorn given the colours of the blur and the image. if beorns role is expanded in other ways, could he be involved with the white councils attempts on dol guldor?
[idril] sweet song LadyMoonScar!
[Demosthenes] puma: But spy pics have revealed some telling truths about production plans for the Rings movies — think of the spy shots of Arwen at Helm’s Deep and the Saruman wizard-kabob.
[LadyMoonScar] and swept above the dragon’s lair
[LadyMoonScar] there black and dark lay boulders stark
[Demosthenes] Sometimes spy pics /can/ be trusted.
[Curufinwe] Just another thought on the promotion of the next film, PJ might choose to give the game away, release some promotional images of Beorn early
[LadyMoonScar] and flying smoke was in the air
[Curufinwe] to get people interested in the new character
[idril] Saruman wizard-kabob? 😛 that sounds hilarious
[LadyMoonScar] it left the world and took its flight
[Puma] which is why i never pay attention to that stuff Demz…..pj will make a fun film i will enjoy.he always does….its just not jrr
[Demosthenes] idril: a photo of Chris Lee chained to the wheel of death.
[LadyMoonScar] over the wide seas of the night
[Tajik] I remember the spy pics of the Nazgul on a lunch break, smoking, I think.
[idril] ahhh ok thx Demz
[LadyMoonScar] the moon set sail upon the gale
[Curufinwe] I would think he’d probably do that…
[LadyMoonScar] and stars were fanned to leaping light.
[Tajik] or just hanging out…can’t remember now
[LadyMoonScar] whew… my fingers hurt
[Demosthenes] The other counter is that official production photos surely present everything in the very best light. the equivalent of a glamour shot.
[Demosthenes] So which is “truth”?
[Curufinwe] I reckon we’ll see some promotional images of Beorn in the next few weeks
[Tajik] spy pics allow the hype of the film (bravo to LadyMoonScar for that) to be bult up, which is never bad
[Demosthenes] tajik: true!
[Dovanar] all dead Oo ?
[Tajik] get people speculating, talking, researching……the film gossip becomes number one on many people’s lips. People can’t wait to verify their speculations, so they rush to see the finished product.
[Dovanar] what is that !
[Demosthenes] Do you feel that people who have made a judgement already are wrong?
[Darkover] I noticed in the photo that Beorn was naked from the waist up, and he was wearing trousers and a belt, rather than the tunic-like garment he wore in the book. Just a detail.
[Demosthenes] Darkover: a few folks think that detail is a bit off, too.
[Darkover] I think people were probably going to rush to see the movie, anway
[Tajik] basing speculations on one pic can’t lead to a right or a wrong, at this point in the games
[RubyGamgee] I agree with Tajik
[Puma] agreed tajik
[Curufinwe] certainly going to be interesting
[Puma] as in all the other movies.pj will find his own ways to ruin big parts of it
[Curufinwe] Beorn is another one of those powerful characters that is bound to make an impact
[Tajik] I think I am more excited about seeing Smaug than seeing Beorn, to type truthfully
[Dovanar] the picture is an old version of peter jackson’s beorn ! that’s what i think !
[Demosthenes] https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-22fScCXN95E/UgdHxRPQ2jI/AAAAAAAAEmE/zrSJAJVZtho/w774-h580-no/Beorn_Lord_of_the_Wild_by_Ted_Nasmith.jpg nasmith gave Beorn a tunic, for example.
[Demosthenes] http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050525111818/lotr/images/5/52/Beorn-nasmith.jpg same here.
[Darkover] Dovanar may be right–that is a possibility I hadn’t considered.
[LadyMoonScar] yeah, maybe the pic is one of the ‘Early Stages’ concepts
[Puma] that pic is not bad Demz
[Demosthenes] which one?
[Raurenkili] not bad!
[Raurenkili] first one
[Dovanar] both are good !
[Tajik] then was the pic included in the calendar prematurely?
[LadyMoonScar] first one
[Darkover] I didn’t care for the second picture–Beorn looks like a fairy-tale giant.
[Curufinwe] Has a trollish look about him in the second pic
[Demosthenes] Dovanar: not impossible. but seems strange they would release a concept that was discarded for a promo calendar.
[idril] im back
[Puma] the 1st is good.the 2nd horrid
[LadyMoonScar] could be a tease
[Raurenkili] wb Idril
[Darkover] welcome back, idril
[LadyMoonScar] hey idril
[Raurenkili] 1st good 2nd awful
[Demosthenes] puma: beorn lord of the wild … he is truly barrel chested.
[idril] yes i agree i dont like the second one
[Puma] a bear would be barrel chested
[Demosthenes] Yes, I think i’d agree there.
[Raurenkili] needs to be barrel chested
[Tajik] Not sure how much more I can contribute to this topic; think it is a bit limiting.
[RubyGamgee] Bear-el chested
[idril] lol 😛
[Darkover] We do seem to have wrapped up the topic
[Puma] and as i said earlier beorn is just jrr working out a philological problem
[Darkover] should have mead, Dovanar, in honor of Beorn
[Tajik] I used to carry my sons around in a Bjorn when they were babies.
[Demosthenes] Mmm. this seems to have been a shorter topic, but that’s okay! It’s been interesting.
[Puma] HoF can move very fast
[Curufinwe] Speaking for myself, I go into the next film with an open mind. Beorn would have to be really different to muck things up
[Darkover] Yes, it has. People brought up things I hadn’t even considered.
[Demosthenes] And there was hardly any finger-pointing!
[Tajik] Beorn to be Wild!
[Darkover] Yes, Curufinwe, I think PJ’s Beorn will be at least okay.
[idril] haha good one
[Demosthenes] Beorn again.
[Puma] just remember. beorn is not the nicest guy out there.but he can be a good friend
[Darkover] lol, Demosthenes
[RubyGamgee] Better friend than enemy, Puma
[Tajik] he was simply Beorn bad
[Darkover] I seem to have wandered into Pun Central
[Tajik] I am a long-distance punner
[Demosthenes] Okay, any final points or questions about PJ’s Beorn?
[RubyGamgee] Yes. Why does he have a mohawk?
[Darkover] I do wonder if we will see him in mid-change, like in a werewolf movie.
[Puma] i hope people go back to beorn chapter and look at that song.to see what it is saying.and its import
[LadyMoonScar] I think we just wait for the movie and keep our fingers crossed for happiness.
[Raurenkili] WHY THE MOHAWK
[Darkover] I hope not. Think that would be a mistake.
[Tajik] he has a mowhawk because he is punk rock
[Demosthenes] aha. Ruby some folks think he is mid-change. that is the best explanation so far.
[Raurenkili] I will Puma
[Demosthenes] I’m not convinced of it, but that’s what people think.
[Dovanar] i say let’s wait and see and have a discussion like this one after 13th december 2013 !
[idril] he looks like David Bowie with the hair. but i wont judge it until DoS has come out
[Tajik] Ziggy Stardust as Beorn?
[Puma] oh.after movie comes out.the moviechat room will be crazy
[LadyMoonScar] i saw McCavity. speaking of dancing bears
[Tajik] Will Beaorn ride around on a tricycle or in a little car?
[Puma] so Demz.what is nexts weeks topic?
[Demosthenes] puma: taming of smeagol.
[idril] just random note but i really like the new DoS poster
[Tajik] Taming of Smeagol! Cool! Required readings?
[Curufinwe] ah that picture is so pixelated it’s frustrating not getting a good look at Beorn
[Darkover] Sounds good. I guess I will see you all then.
[Darkover] Good discussion, as always, everyone!
[idril] i think i can be on then. dont know for sure tho. see u all later!
[Puma] have a safe week Darkover
[Demosthenes] thanks everyone for an interesting discussion. Feel free to keep chatting. 🙂
* Demosthenes changes topic to ‘The HOF topic next weekend: The taming of Smeagol | General TORn chat thataway! click –] #theonering.net’
Session Close: Sun Aug 18 09:08:28 2013