Elvish experts Golrab (Kris Nelson) and Annatar (Paul Dunne) have been conducting lessons on Quenya and Sindarin for…
Continue ReadingElvish experts Golrab (Kris Nelson) and Annatar (Paul Dunne) have been conducting lessons on Quenya and Sindarin for the past few weeks on our IRC Server irc.theonering.net. Here’s a transcript of lesson five. Look out for a transcript of lesson six soon! [More]
The link for lesson three seems to have gone MIA. Here it is again. [More]
<Gorlab> Wonderful! I suppose I shall begin and those who aren’t here soon will be and whoever is going to stop in later can do so then….
<Gorlab> Excellent!
<Demosthenes> hey Annatar
<Gorlab> As you all have probablly surmised our little lessons are actually leading somewhere…
<Gorlab> Soon we will be utilizing past lessons to construct sentences…
<TigerlillyTook> This is my first elvish lesson on here, otherwise I have taught myself what I could. Fyi.
<Gorlab> Well tonight’s lesson is all about Verbs…
<Gorlab> We should all understand that from an english point of view…
<Gorlab> (Unless of course you aren’t speaking English right now…)
<Gorlab> But of course Verbs denote action….
<Annatar> of various sorts
<Gorlab> Now, we have mentioned in the past some resources for people who really want to learn this kind of thing…
<Gorlab> and one of the most important is Book 5 of “The History of Middle Earth” series…
<Gorlab> because in this book is contained a section entitled “The Etymologies”
<Annatar> also volumes 11 and 12
<Gorlab> and is important because it contains lists of word roots for us to build our parts of speech with…
<Gorlab> The entries for the two Elvish languages Quenya and Sindarin (that we are going over in these lessons)
<Gorlab> are contained within this document…
<Gorlab> The Quenya Verb entries normally follow a consonant-vowel-consonant root/stem formula…
<Gorlab> tul –
<Gorlab> sil –
<Gorlab> etc.
<Gorlab> these verbal root/stems are usually denoted by a hyphen…
<Gorlab> because these words are just begging to have something attatch to them…
<Gorlab> The Verb list comes in two important forms…
<Demosthenes> Okay, i vaguely follow that.
<Gorlab> Non-Derived, or Primary Verbs do NOT end in -ya, -ta, -na, or -a
<Gorlab> Derived, or Secondary Verbs DO end in -ya, -ta, -na, and -a
<Gorlab> for instance
<Gorlab> the root/stem word TUL- is a Primary Verb
<Gorlab> a form of that verb Tulta is a Secondary Verb
<Gorlab> (because it ends in -ta)
<Gorlab> everybody there so far?
<Demosthenes> Example time?
<Four-O-Nine> *nod*
<Gorlab> In the list of Verbs in the document known as “The Etymologies” they appear in these two forms:
<Gorlab> Primary (Not ending in -ta, -ya, na, -a)
<Gorlab> and Secondary (Ending in -ta, -ya, -na, -a)
<Annatar> which means that they are conjugated in different ways
<Gorlab> calya means “to illuminate”
<Gorlab> tulta means “to send for”
<Gorlab> harna means “to wound”
<Gorlab> and “mapa” means “to grasp”
<Gorlab> ALL of these Verbs are Secondary Verbs
<Annatar> let’s conjugate one, shall we?
<Gorlab> because they end in -ta, -na, -ya, or -a
<Gorlab> Ok, we’ll start with quet-
<Gorlab> quet- means “speak”
<Demosthenes> quendi is derived from it?
<Annatar> same root
<Demosthenes> okay
<Gorlab> (qu kind of stands for a consonant here in our consonant-vowel-consonant form)
<Gorlab> it is a Primary Verb
<Gorlab> because it doesn’t end in any of the “a” endings…
<Gorlab> so to conjugate the present tense of the verb…
<Gorlab> we simply add an “a” to it…
<Gorlab> So instead of Quet- “speak”
<Gorlab> We get Queta, “is speaking”
<Gorlab> but we also do one more thing to it…
<Gorlab> We lengthen the pronounciation of the stem-vowel
<Gorlab> so queta becomes quEta…
<Gorlab> (this is shown by an accent mark above the stem-vowel)
<Annatar> lengthening the vowel
<Gorlab> The stem-vowel is the vowel in that consonant-VOWEL-consonant Verb formation we keep mentioning…
<Aredhel> from “e” to “ay”?
<Gorlab> During pronunciation, yes…
<Gorlab> and you’d mark the pronunciation change with the accent mark…
<Annatar> How do you say “I speak”?
<Gorlab> now there is also a form of the verb that doesn’t mean doing something, but TO do something….
<Gorlab> I speak?
<Annatar> in Quenya, that is
<Renirk> take the stem of the infinitive and add the first person singular ending
<Annatar> which is…
<Elenath> so we’re learning elvish in here?
<Renirk> Queto ?
<Aredhel> yes
<Aredhel> to Elenath
<Aredhel> don’t take the time if it’s already been covered, but do we have a set of verb endings?
<Annatar> for Quenya grammar got to the old fave http://ardalambion.com/
<Gorlab> I believe “I speak” would be Naquetanye….
<Aredhel> okay thanks
<Catherine> Where does the Na- come form in front of that?
<Gorlab> Sorry…shouldn’t have hit enter…
<Gorlab> it should, of course, be Quetanye…
<Catherine> oh, sorry.
<Gorlab> I speak.
<Renirk> Hah
<Annatar> the “o” ending applies to Sindarin
<Annatar> We’ll be getting there in a moment
<Annatar> but back to Gorlab…
<Gorlab> now where was I?
<Gorlab> Oh yes…
<Gorlab> The Infinitive!
<Gorlab> add the ending -ie to your verbs…
<Gorlab> to form the infinitive…
<EmeraldSmeagol> all of this is very confusing to me. What is an infinitive?
<Gorlab> If these verbs have final vowels…
<Gorlab> (as all the Secondary ones do)
<Annatar> to be, or not to be
<Renirk> the infinitive is the “to” bit of the verb
<Gorlab> drop them to add this ending….
<Renirk> to eat, to go, etc
<EmeraldSmeagol> ok, got it
<Aeran> to brighten would be kalinie?
<Gorlab> well, what is the root?
<Annatar> Kal-?
<Aredhel> the root, son, the root
<Renirk> don’t you form the root from the infinitive, and not vice-versa
<Annatar> exactly
<Annatar> the root is the basic form, not the infinitive
<Gorlab> so if Kal means “brighten”
<Annatar> and the infinitive is derived therefrom
<Demosthenes> Kala?
<Gorlab> then Kalie should be “to brighten”
<Renirk> ok
<Maeglin_Lomion> What about “to speak?”
<Gorlab> except that with our spelling conventions, we turn all “K” s into “C” s..
<Roccovende> 🙂
<Annatar> and “he/she/it brightens” would be…
<Aredhel> what about you?
<Renirk> kalia ?
<Gorlab> “cala” would be the present tense of this…
<Aredhel> the gerund?
<Renirk> calanye for the 1st person ?
<Gorlab> I brighten…yes…
<Maeglin_Lomion> If quetanye is “I speak,” would quetalye be “you speak?” That is, if I remember the noun thing correctly from last week…?
<Gorlab> So there is also Past and Future Tense as well…
<Gorlab> yes
<Gorlab> the Secondary Verbs just get the ending -ne tacked on…
<Gorlab> Tultane…
<Gorlab> summoned
<Renirk> calyanë?
<Catherine> secondary verbs?
<Gorlab> Tulta is summoning
<Gorlab> secondary Verbs end in -ta, -ya, -na, or -a
<Catherine> oh, thank you.
<Annatar> Primary and Secondary verbs are not separated so much by meaning as by an almost arbitrary grammatical difference, think of regular and irregular verbs if that helps
<Elaran> or “Strong” and “weak” for that matter =)
<Gorlab> Primary verbs get the -ne ending IF they end in -r, -m, or -n
<Annatar> 😉
<Gorlab> but the ending -le if the verb ends in an -l
<Gorlab> and if the ending is -p, -t, or -c….
<Gorlab> we have to add a NASAL INFIXION….
<Gorlab> No, this is not something you stick in your nose…
<Annatar> let’s have an example
<Annatar> which would hurt
<Gorlab> the Quenya word Top-
<Gorlab> means “to cover”
<Gorlab> But because it ends in a -p
<Gorlab> We must place an “m” before this consonant…
<Gorlab> and add the “e” to the end…
<Catherine> Isn’t that past tense?
<Gorlab> making the Past tense of this word “Tompe”
<Catherine> oh, whoops.
<Gorlab> The FUTURE tense would be Topuva…
<Gorlab> except you drop the -a endings of all Secondary Verbs to form this…
<Gorlab> So Tulta would be Tultuva…will summon
<Annatar> and NOT tultAuva
<Gorlab> The last couple of things about Quenya Verbs is the aorist tense, and the agreement in number with subject…
<Maeglin_Lomion> “I will cover” would be topuvanye?
<Gorlab> an aorist is a verb tense that relates to a general timeless action….
<Gorlab> topuvanye, yes!!!
<Maeglin_Lomion> Thanks. I think I’m getting the hang of this. 🙂
<Gorlab> To get back to Quet-
<Gorlab> Quet- would be “speak”
<Gorlab> Quetie would be “to speak”
<Gorlab> Queta would be “is speaking”
<Gorlab> but the aorist would be Quete, with the “-e” ending meaning “speaks”
<Annatar> The Aorist would mean “always speaks” or “is always speaking”
<Drogo> hmmm
<Drogo> Bilbo! BIlbo! Bilbo Baggins
<Gorlab> The Quenya present tense always denotes the english “is, -ing” form
<Annatar> I am speaking (now)
<Annatar> vs.
<Gorlab> He speaks
<Annatar> I (always) speak
<blindeye> ash nazg
<Gorlab> The final big thing about Quenya is that all Verbs must agree with their subject in number…
<Annatar> NO BLACK SPEECH
<blindeye> lol
<Gorlab> So if the subject is Plural
<blindeye> all i know is the ring chant anyways
<Gorlab> The Verbs must be too…
<Gorlab> mercifully Professor Tolkien has given us one ending for plural verbs…
<Gorlab> -r
<Gorlab> So that about wraps it up for quenya verbs – how about Sindarin verbs, Annatar?
<Annatar> They got em’…
<Annatar> and next week we’l be covering the intricacies and delights of the Sindarin Verbal sysytem
<Elaran> lol
<Annatar> If you came back next week, many of the concepts that we’ve covered tonight will help with Sindarin verbs
<Gorlab> Thankyou one and all for showing up – one more lesson and we will begin to speak in sentences to one another…
<Maeglin_Lomion> Thank you Gorlab & Annatar.
<Annatar> in the mean time, here are a couple of URLs to check out
<Demosthenes> thanks Annatar. thanks gorlab
<Gorlab> Then we will have some lessons geared towards writing in Tengwar..
<Aeran> thanks
<Gorlab> Namarie!
<Maeglin_Lomion> Cool!
<Demosthenes> I’m hoping to have the previous lesson up soon btw
<Eowyn_Sister-Daughter> thanks Gorlab!!!
<blindeye> doodeedoo
<blindeye> lala
<Annatar> if you look under “verb” section of “Sindarin: the noble tongue” you will encounter an informing and formidable essay. I’ll try to break it down http://ardalambion.com/
<Eowyn_Sister-Daughter> I typed the log as we went if you want it
<Annatar> also, there is a less frightening discussion of Sindarin verbs at http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie.htm
<Annatar> This will be the primary document we’ll be discussing, so study up, and We’ll see y’all next week.
Tonight we finish our action packed series on Verbs! Join Annatar and Gorlab as we take a walk down Sindarin Verbal Lane. Join us in #TheHallofFire tonight at 8pm EST, 5pm PST 1am GMT. You can also now read through the Transcript for Lesson 5! [More]
Yahoo! has a story about Autographedtoyou.com, a website that specialises in celebrity autogtaphs on demand. “It absolutely feels good that I’m able to contribute cold, hard cash to some charities we support, and it’s coming from my fan base,” said Sean Astin, whose signature is one of the site’s biggest sellers, due in large part to his appearance in the “Lord of the Rings” films. [More]
A precious few images were saved off of our live webcam feed from Comic-Con 2003. Take a look at some of these beauties! Calisuri and Tookish working hard at our booth, fans stopping by to say ‘hi’ and Sala Baker making his presence known! [More]
A precious few images were saved off of our livewebcam feed from Comic-Con 2003. Take a look at some of these beauties! Calisuri and Tookish working hard at our booth, fans stopping by to say ‘hi’ and Sala Baker making his presence known!
