This week’s lesson in our series “How to Construct a Sindarin Sentence” covered derivation. Here’s the log, for those who couldn’t make it in!

*** Log file opened: 3/5/2003 7:01:55 PM

[jincey] welcome to lesson#4 of “how to write a Sindarin Sentance”
[jincey] elostrion will speak a bit, then take questions
[Elostrion] Tonight we are going to look over Derivation.
[Elostrion] Derivation refers to the adding to/altering of words by the use of suffixes or prefixes.
[Elostrion] As well as, the deduction of words from other languages.
[Elostrion] The latter can be quite confusing and complicated.
[Elostrion] Deducing a probable word is actually quite faulty as well.
[Elostrion] We can theorize all day long about what the word for “extrapolate” is, but Tolkien, very likely, would have had a different word.
[Elostrion] Let’s go over the easier section first.
[Elostrion] There are four categories that Mr. Derdzinski divides the 5 alteration suffixes/prefixes into.
[Elostrion] Augumentative
[Elostrion] Diminutive
[Elostrion] Pejorative
[Elostrion] and Negative
[Elostrion] Augumentative:
[Elostrion] We add the suffix “-on”.
[Elostrion] This will make the noun mean “great ___”
[Elostrion] “siri-on” – “great river”
[Elostrion] Diminutive:
[Elostrion] We add the suffix “-eg”.
[Elostrion] Doing so will diminish the meaning.
[Elostrion] “nogoth-eg” – “dwarf-let”
[Elostrion] Pejorative:
[Elostrion] This will add a negative element.
[Elostrion] “u/ú-“
[Elostrion] “ú-marth” – “ill-fate”
[Elostrion] Negative:
[Elostrion] There are two prefixes in this section…
[Elostrion] “pen-” and “al-“
[Elostrion] Both ‘reverse’ the meaning.
[Elostrion] “pen-adar” – “father-less”
[Elostrion] “al-firin” – “im-mortal”
[Elostrion] This covers all these.
[Elostrion] Someone asked me a question last lesson about the process Mr. Derdzinski went through to reconstruct “Navaer”
[Elostrion] These are his words:
[Elostrion] Quenya _namárië_ means ‘be in goodness’ and consists of _na-_ ‘be’ + _márie_
[Elostrion] ‘goodness’. My reconstruction is a hypothetical evolution of EC
[Elostrion] _*na-magariie_ to Sindarin form. The intervocalic _-m-_ becomes _-v-_ in
[Elostrion] Sindarin, the intervocalic _-g-_ vanishes, and long _-a-_ becomes affected
[Elostrion] by final _-iié_ and becomes a diphtong.
[Elostrion] And we have _*navaer_
[Elostrion] This represents a fairly simple example of reconstruction.
[Elostrion] Compound words are simple in comparison.
[Elostrion] If one wanted to deduce what a Quenya word would have changed to over the evolution into Sindarin…
[Elostrion] One would have to trace all the changes all the way back to Primitive Elvish and then follow the chain forward to Modern Sindarin.
[Elostrion] This can get extremely complicated.
[Elostrion] As you can well imagine.
[Elostrion] I don’t have any exampled for you now, because I have not had the need to attempt to do anything of this sort myself.
[Elostrion] I think I’m ready to take questions now.
[Elostrion] Are there any?
[Vardaer] i think i have some
[JulieOh] Can the 4 alterations be added to any word form (e.g., nouns and verbs both), or is it more restrictive? We’ve seen “u-” with verbs, but I’m not familiar with vocab enough to know of others.
[Not_Maedhros] What is the difference between pen- and al-?
[Elostrion] When “u-/ú-” is added to verbs it is being used as a completely different particle.
[JulieOh] ahhh, okay, so these are noun-modifications only, then?
[Elostrion] Even though it has somewhat the same effect, don’t think that this is true for all of the prefixes/suffixes I listed.
[Elostrion] Yes JulieOh
[JulieOh] thanks! OK, I’m done. Next. 🙂
[Vardaer] k, i do not get diminuitive
[Vardaer] do something else with that, please
[ILookLikeLuthien] okay, I have missed the lessons before, so I shall read them before I ask any questions about this one…but a few
[Elostrion] Adding the diminutive suffix simply diminishes the meaning.
[Elostrion] “Dwarf-let” is a bad example, something like “small-Dwarf”
[Vardaer] ah
[Vardaer] ok
[Vardaer] sort of like, maybe an insult, perhaps
[Elostrion] I suppose it could be.
[Vardaer] no
[Vardaer] ok
[ILookLikeLuthien] I have a question that isn’t specific to this…but is it helpful at all to already be on the bilingual path when trying to learn Elvish?
[Elostrion] Oh absolutely!
[Vardaer] i wouldnt think so
[Not_Maedhros] What is the difference between pen- and al-?
[ILookLikeLuthien] Alright, because I am taking French currently also, I’m in my third year of that
[Elostrion] If one has some previous experience with language study, it is immensely helpful.
[Vardaer] i am just gettting this confused with german and some french
[ILookLikeLuthien] Splendid.
[ILookLikeLuthien] This should be different enough from French that I will be okay…I hope…
[Elostrion] “pen-” means “less”
[Elostrion] “al-” means “no/not”
[Not_Maedhros] Ah
[Not_Maedhros] pen is without, al isn’t?
[Not_Maedhros] :p
[Elostrion] “pen-” = “without, lacking, less”
[ILookLikeLuthien] so that’s why al-firin is immortal…I see
[Not_Maedhros] I see.
[Bullmaiden] what’s the difference between “al-” and “u-“
[ILookLikeLuthien] Elostrion, I do appreciate this, and I will read the transcripts of the earlier lessons hopefully before I come to the next lesson also.
[Elostrion] Not much Bullmaiden
[Not_Maedhros] BTW, thanks for posting the Namárië/Navaer reconstruction.
[Elostrion] I am happy to hear that ILookLikeLuthien
[Elostrion] You’re welcome Not_Maedhros
[Thoronog] Why is ú- considered pejorative and al- considered negative?
[Elostrion] This is based on Mr. Derdzinski’s theory. I don’t know his exact reasons.
[ILookLikeLuthien] I think it would help to think of Pejorative as having a negative feel, and to think of Negative as meaning opposite…
[ILookLikeLuthien] Pejorative seems to have that tone of negativity, if you follow me.
[Bullmaiden] agreed
[Elostrion] Exactly, negative “reverses” the meaning
[Thoronog] pejorative means “disparaging”, but ú- is just an opposite, isn’t it?
[Elostrion] You are absolutely right ILookLikeLuthien
[ILookLikeLuthien] sweet!
[ILookLikeLuthien] I like it when I understand languages, they’re so fascinating.
[Elostrion] It is, but I think here it conotates more than just a “360”
[Vardaer] yes, it is
[ILookLikeLuthien] Elostrion, are there many tenses in Elvish, such as the Imperfect, subjunctive, conditional, et cetera?
[Elostrion] Remember that these were used in actual attested Tolkien text.
[Elostrion] Oh dear yes.
[Elostrion]There is:
[Elostrion] Infinitive, Continuative Present, Aorist, Past, Irregular Past, Continuative Future, Simple Future, Subjunctive, etc.
[ILookLikeLuthien] Good. Because I seem to understand tenses fairly well, the only time that I really get behind in French is if I don’t put in the effort to memorize.
[JulieOh] is there any difference between u- and ú- ?
[Eruner] isn’t the existence of the aorist and the two future tenses debated?
[Elostrion] No, simply alternates of each other.
[ILookLikeLuthien] Aorist, I have never hears of that tenst…this should be fun.
[Elostrion] It is Eruner
[Eruner] ah
[Elostrion] Aorist implies a timless truth
[Not_Maedhros] Sheep eat grass.
[Elostrion] It will be fun.
[JulieOh] are there any strict rules as far as when to use one over the other? (u- and ú-)
[ILookLikeLuthien] About how many lessons do you think there will be? Just as a sort of guess.
[Not_Maedhros] vs sheep are eating grass.
[ILookLikeLuthien] (sorry Julie)
[Elostrion] Not that I’ve come across JulieOh
[19:30] at least that’s how it is in Greek
[JulieOh] ok, thanks
[Not_Maedhros] The sheep are eating grass is the present tense. The sheep eat grass is aorist.
[ILookLikeLuthien] oh okay!
[Not_Maedhros] “The sheep eat grass” imples that the sheep eat grass as a continual habit.
[Eruner] in Quenya, the aorist is like a normal present tense while the present tense is like the present continuative
[Vardaer] i have neber heard of aorist before
[Elostrion] I hope to continue with a more “in-depth” series after we finish this beginner’s course. But, I suppose around 7/8.
[Eruner] aorist is a tense in Quenya and a suggested tense in Sindarin
[Vardaer] will you teach quenya, too
[Vardaer] i would like to learn that
[ILookLikeLuthien] thank you, because in French I have learned present, future, past, imperfect past, future using the verb to go (i know it’s French name, not its English), and conditional, and I am starting subjunctive now
[Eruner] download ardalambion’s course!
[Not_Maedhros] http://www.ardalambion.com/
[Vardaer] ok
[Vardaer] ill go there
[Not_Maedhros] Helge K. Fauskanger = teh god.
[Eruner] thaks maedhros
[Elostrion] I actually prefer Sindarin, but if once we are done with Sindarin.
[ILookLikeLuthien] I would like Sindarin more…is that what is used in the films?
[Eruner] indeed
[Eruner] 😉
[Thoronog] Elostrion, you didn’t mentioned anything about these prefixes causing mutations
[Elostrion] Mostly
[Elostrion] That is all encompased within Consonant Mutation
[Elostrion] I will mention it then.
[ILookLikeLuthien] I am in such a good mood now that I’ve gotten to participate in at least one of these
[Eruner] when will we get to mutations?
[JulieOh] is that next week’s topic?
[Elostrion] In 3 weeks
[Eruner] ok
[JulieOh] ok, thanks. Need to prepare. 😉
[Elostrion] We still have Conjugation!
[ILookLikeLuthien] I don’t know what mutations are necessarily…
[ILookLikeLuthien] conjugation is fun.
[ILookLikeLuthien] Memorization.
[ILookLikeLuthien] Are there many regular verbs?
[Elostrion] please visit:
[Elostrion] http://www.theonering.net/barlimans/elvish
[Eruner] mutations are certain changes that can happen to the first consonant of a word…they’re remarkably annoying
[Elostrion] I believe my consonant mutation charts are up
[Elostrion] I love them!
[ILookLikeLuthien] oh.
[Eruner] well, but they’re a pain to memorize
[Elostrion] They add to the theme of ridiculous complication.
[Eruner] oh yes, of course!
[Bullmaiden] LoL
[ILookLikeLuthien] Alright, so if I go there…will it have many different things on it?
[Elostrion] I don’t understand?
[Eruner] what’s your opinion about the “irregular” past tense i.e. car > agor?
[ILookLikeLuthien] go to that website
[Not_Maedhros] Nixon dirksen nasahist, rebozo boogaloo…
[Elostrion>]Let’s cross that bridge when we come to it Eruner
[ILookLikeLuthien] will it have many different elvish topics, I mean
[Eruner] ok
Not_Maedhros likes to cross bridges before he sees them.
Eruner lauges at Maedhros
[Elostrion] I got a new game today, so I’m going to go if no one has any objections.
[Eruner] laughs
[Eruner] ok
[Eruner] thanks, elostrion
[Eruner] when will the transcript be up?
[Elostrion] It is absolutely my pleasure!
[JulieOh] go ahead, thanks as always, Elostrion!
[Bullmaiden] Thanks
[Not_Maedhros] What game?
[Vardaer] thanks elostrion
[jincey] thanks elostrion : )
[Eruner] hen hannon
[Not_Maedhros] Thanks for the lesson Elostrion.

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Johnny Depp, who stars in the upcoming “Pirates of the Caribbean,” won’t be the only one battling piracy onscreen this summer. Ben Affleck, James Cameron, Sean Astin, special effects wizard Stan Winston, and others have lent their names, faces and voices to an attack on digital piracy in the form of a public service announcement. Thanks to Daddy Twofoot!

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Rhiannon writes: Incase this is of any interest road chiefs in Monmouthshire – Wales have been banned from using words from Tolkien on their seat-belt safety add. Apparently they wanted to change “A ring to save(??) them all, a ring to bind them” to “A seat belt to save them all, a seat belt to bind them” A spokesman for Tolkien’s family has said: “It’s not our policy to lend Tolkien’s name to public campaigns.”

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Robert Ironside sends us this amazing LOTR chesset, handcarved! The chess set is hand carved out of Basswood [Limewood] and took me almost two months of almost solid carving to finish! [More]

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Robert Ironside writes:

I’ve been a Tolkien fan all my life and have carved a couple of sets in the past on this theme but I like to think that this is the best yet.

The chess set is hand carved out of Basswood [Limewood] and took me almost two months of almost solid carving [even weekends] to finish. No patterns are used or templates. I just start carving and see what happens [my approach]. I’ve read the books a number of times [lost count after 4] and just try different renderings of the characters I’ve known in my mind for 30 years [i’m 41].

Email Robert for more info

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Hey gang! Usually I report in with strategy guides, FAQ’s and a host of all other sorts of LOTR TCG related gaming material. But today is different. Today, I would like speak to all of you with a different voice – a voice of reflection.

The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game is so many things to so many people. For the competitive player, it is the chance to seek out paths of glory against skilled opponents and fierce competitors. For enthusiasts, it is an opportunity to collect yet another precious and timeless collectible to place alongside their numerous Tolkien based treasures, books, maps, photos and figurines. For the casual gaming fans, it is a pocket-sized travel-ready aspect of the literary work–perfectly suited for the occasional pick-up game where socializing is the goal, not winning.

And then for many others…including myself, it is all of the above, some aspects more than others – but most importantly–it is the way that has changed many personal areas of my life…for the better.

I have seen first-hand how other trading card game communities coexist. I have felt the gritty essence of the competitive spirit loosed upon tournaments and the players. I have seen these communities fall under the yoke of such strife! But thankfully, I have not seen much of this type of presence in our game. Quite the contrary. The Lord of the Rings TCG is THE game which has given us the opportunity as competitors, enthusiasts and fans to grow together as friends, to become closer as people and to share how the Lord of the Rings experience has influenced each one of our lives.

The Lord of the Rings TCG has brought us so many special, precious and life-affirming possibilities. It has provided us with possibly one of the most important life changing opportunities we seldomly ever take advantage of: the opportunity of meeting new people! For me personally, this game has given me more than I could have ever hoped for. Throughout the course of my career in this game, I have met and become friends with incredible people (including fellow TOR.n staffers Flinch, Quickbeam and Calisuri), become a Rider of Rohan (Decipher’s Product Champion Program), become a staff member of TOR.n, and most importantly – I met one of my best friends, Ram Deleon, and recently became Godfather to his son – Samuel. Who knew that The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game could offer so much? Maybe it’s new motto should be: One game – many blessings.

Here is another incredible story I would like all of you to really read. It is probably one of the most wonderful LOTR TCG life-changing tales I have ever read. This comes from the desk of Kyle Heuer:

Couple Gets Engaged Playing The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game

About four months ago Decipher was emailed a request by a player of The Lord of the Rings Trading Card Game who was preparing to ask his long-time girlfriend to marry him. Mike Sugden and his girlfriend, Beth Brown, had grown very close while playing The Lord of the Rings TCG. The time they spent playing the game with each other meant so much to them both that he decided to propose while they played a game.

Mike’s request was simple: would Decipher make a special card for him to propose to Beth with? Decipher responded with a resounding ‘yes’.

Mike worked with us to develop the game text that would be on the card. He wanted Beth to have a choice for both the answer to his proposal and gameplay. Mike selected the culture, title, cost, card type, and game-text. Then the card, Will You Marry Me?, was ready.

Valentines Day (February 14) finally rolls around and Mike is set with his cards. He builds Beth’s deck for her – as he usually does – but this time leaves out any card that would let her look at his hand. Mike needed to surprise her with the card and an untimely peek from Sting would ruin the whole proposal. About half way through the game Mike draws the card and a ring to play it with. Mike is incredibly nervous at this point, but is ready to propose.

It becomes Mike’s turn to play, but just as he is about to play the card to propose there is a knock at the door. Beth’s best friend dropped by to hang out and chat. Mike is now stuck on the brink of proposing to the woman he loves! Twenty minutes later, after some coaxing from Mike, Beth’s friend finally departs.

As Mike begins play, he plays a Sting to his Frodo and looks at Beth’s hand. Mike wanted to make sure that Beth had plenty of minions to play so that there would be a real choice for her – there were five big minions for Beth to play. Mike plays the card and the ring for Beth, then adds 30 twilight into the pool. Beth gets confused and asks to read the card.

After a few moments of silence, Beth looks at Mike and asks, “Do you expect an answer right away?”

Mike responds, “We can leave it here in the Shadow phase for a bit.”

Beth looks at the card again, then at Mike, then at the card again. She starts to cry. Through the tears she finally gave him his answer… “I won’t play any minions.”

Mike and Beth embrace.

Believe it or not, they continued the game after all that. Mike went on to win the game, but technically Beth won as Mike had an illegal deck. Sorry Mike, have to give it to her 🙂

I had the pleasure of talking with Beth since the proposal and I asked her what she thought of all this. She said it was perfectly “geeky-romantic” and she is very happy. She did say that she was disappointed that she couldn’t play any of her minions, because she would have smashed him with what she had in her hand.

Congratulations to both of you.

Kyle Heuer
Promotions Coordinator

To view the article in it’s entirety and to see the custom made proposal card, please click HERE

The “Proposal” card is precious in a very, very special way, and I think Decipher deserves a great deal of acclaim for responding to this type of deep personal request. I mean, this falls right in line with some of the great proposal gestures of all time! Most importantly however is that two fans’ lives have been incredibly changed forever thanks to what essentially is just a “simple trading card game”. Wow, stories like this really pull at the heartstrings!

If you have a story on how the Lord of the Rings has positively affected your life in one form or another, please share it with us. We would love to hear from you.

Thanks for reading,

Lao of Gondor

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