Support - A not for profit fan community!
Join us in our 24 Hour Chatroom!
LEGO Lord of the Rings Collection
Key to Erebor

News Alerts

Get emailed with every new post!

Weekly Newsletter

Select a list:

Elvish Language Lesson #2

February 13, 2003 at 9:08 pm by Jincey  - 

Our second lesson on “How to Construct a Sindarin Sentence”, which concentrated on articles, took place Wednesday, Feb 12 in #TheHallofFire. We’d like to thank our guest, Barliman’s regular and self-taught language expert Elostrion. Here’s the transcript of the log:

[Elostrion] Welcome to “How to Construct a Sindarin Sentence: Lesson Two”
[Elostrion] We will be covering Articles.
[Elostrion] They are very simple.
[Elostrion] In Sindarin, there are no indefinate articles (a, an).
[Elostrion] Only definate (the).
[Elostrion] However, there are four forms of “the”.
[Elostrion] Sindarin “the” has two distinct divisions:
[Elostrion] Singular and Plural
[Elostrion] Each has a seperate particle article and a suffix form.
[Elostrion] Singular:
[Elostrion] The Sindarin Singular “the” is “i, -n”
[Elostrion] The “i” stands alone
[Elostrion] The “-n” is suffixed onto the preceding word.
[Elostrion] Obviously, if there is no word preceding the article, than we cannot use the suffix form.
[Elostrion] I prefer to use the suffix form in all cases I am able.
[Elostrion] However, be careful not to suffix onto consonants that cannot be followed by an “n”, e.g. “m, etc.”
[Elostrion] Plural:
[Elostrion] “in, -in”
[Elostrion] The same rules apply.
[Elostrion] We have more liberty with the suffix “-in” because it begins with a vowel.
[Elostrion] As I stated last lesson, Sindarin articles always precede their noun.
[Elostrion] Here are a few examples:
[Elostrion] The bull…
[Elostrion] We would use a singular article, becuase there is only one bull.
[Elostrion] And since “the” is not preceded by another word, we have only one choice…
[Elostrion] “I vund…”
[Elostrion] …abandon the birds…
[Elostrion] We would use a plural article, because there is more than one bird.
[Elostrion] “…awartha i filig…”
[Elostrion] The change in the article is explained by Consonant Mutation, which we will cover soon.
[Elostrion] We have also another choice…
[Elostrion] “…awarthan filig…”
[Elostrion] I am ready to take questions
[Elwen] i would just like to now if the same consonants apply in Sindarin as in Quenya as far as not being able to suffix -n to them
[Elostrion] There are of course different rules that apply; however, in this case, most are concurrent between the two languages. Such as:
[Elostrion] ‘b’
[Elostrion] ‘l’
[Elostrion] etc.
[Elostrion] Next question please.
[JulieOh] is the article always required, or can it be understood? e.g., would “I like books” have to be translated to “I like the books”?
[Elostrion] Sindarin is unique in that you have quite a bit of freedom on matters like these.
[Elostrion] In situations such as Noun Declinsion and such the article is always understood.
[Elostrion] It is more common to write the article; however, if it is not wanted/needed you may leave it out.
[Elaran] question: we dont have any examples of a article being suffixed to the word before it. only combined with prepostions….
[Elostrion] That is true; however, this theory arised after many years of hard study and a collaboration of minds.
[jincey] could you tell us who the scholars are?
[Elostrion] We have come to the conclusion that it is probably possible to do so.
[Elostrion] Ryzsard J. Derdzinski is a wonderful mind
[Elostrion] As is Helge E. Fauskanger
[Elostrion] And, of course, we cannot forget David Salo, the leading Elvish expert in the world.
[Elaran] ask : why do you believe that it is possible?
[Elostrion] I have come to trust these men over my studies. I have not delved too deep into the issue myself, seeing it as already resolved.
[Arodriel] wheres the best place to find verbs in elvish?
[Elostrion], run by Helge Fauskanger, has a wonderful new page up with suggested conjugations of Sindarin verbs…
[Elostrion] however, I am not sure I agree with everything that is contained inside.
[Elostrion] The document is not perfect. Don’t take it as canon.
[Elostrion] Another question?
[Eravial] question: could you give us a couple more examples of plural artcle usage?
[Elostrion] Absolutely!
[Elostrion] “The bulls…”
[Elostrion] “I vund…”
[Elostrion] Again the change is explained by consonant mutation
[Elostrion] Is there another?
[Darkfyre] Question: Is there an example that doesn’t use consonant mutation?
[Elostrion] LoL
[Elostrion] “The strikes…”
[Elostrion] “In draimm…”
[Elostrion] Are there any more?
[jincey] i think we are ready to open the floor now. Looks like there is some debate on what is canon and what is conjecture : )
[Elostrion] Thank you all for coming…I hope to see you next week.
[Raven_Tindomiel] thanks, Elostrion
[happy_eirien] will we be learning characters during these lessons?
[JulieOh] thanks Elostrion! Can’t wait for next week
[Thevina] Argh!
[Not_Maedhros] What is the article “ir” for?
[Menelmacar] thank you very much
[Halladaliel] thanks
[Elostrion] It is my pleasure Raven
[Darkfyre] thanks Elostrion
[aislinn] thanks!
[Eravial] thank you
[happy_eirien] thanx
[Thevina] Elostrian… I am so sorry I missed your class! 🙁
[Arodriel] whats the next lesson gonna be on?
[Jeremy] can someone give an example of Singular articles usage?
Not_Maedhros is unhappy that he missed it.
[Elostrion] LoL, u-moe edaved.
[TheRedSunRises] 3Cuio nin mellon Elostrion
[TheRedSunRises] and thanks!
[Elaran] Elostrion… we have examples of -in being used with a plual subject, Fauskanger notes this, any comments?
[Elostrion] Excuse my lack of accents.
[Elaran] sorry Singular subject
[Elaran] _erin dolothen ethuil_ on the eight day……
[Lembas_n_Cram] thanks Elostrion!
[Elaran] I do not think it is safe to assume that we can use -in in reference to plural subjects only
Thevina the incredibly behind the times asks if these lessons will be each Wednesday?
[Elostrion] There are very many attested examples like this, applying to different areas. Tolkien kept changing his mind about Sindarin, so it is hard to see which version is the final.
[Elassar] am i the only one who can’t understand elvish?
[Not_Maedhros] Nope
[tigere47] no
[Eravial] no
[Elaran] Yes but Fauskanger says that no rule can be reached
[Arodriel] no
[Not_Maedhros] I cannot understand… most of it.
[Not_Maedhros] Hehe…
[aislinn] i am getting there
[Primula_Hornblower1] no Elassar
[Guest] i can say some basic words
[Elostrion] That is true to some extent
[Elaran] yet you presented it as if it was fact that -in was used in reference to a plular subject
[Not_Maedhros] Elostrion, what is the difference between present tense form of say… gâr and garir?
[happy_eirien] will we learn how to use characters?
[Not_Maedhros] happy_eirien, chgaracters?
[Not_Maedhros] If you mean the Tengwar, I can help you there…
[Elassar] when’s the next lesson?
[Arodriel] and what is it on?
[happy_eirien] cool!
[Eravial] will the lesson be posted like the first one?
[Elaran] garir means “they hold” gar means “hold”
[Elostrion] Every Wednesday at 7:00pmEST
[Smoky] Elostrion…could you tell me what mutation to use in a phrase like “leaves of the trees” ??
[Thevina] thank you, Elostrion! next week I won’t miss it altogether…
[Elostrion] Smoky, e-mail me and I will be glad to help.
Not_Maedhros feels sorry for poor Elsortion
[Guest] is the lesson over
[Elaran] Elostrion, in your example _i vund_ you used lenition instead of nasal mutation… any comments?
[Smoky] ok ….thanks !!!
[jincey] we are taking general questions now
[Elostrion] In fact, if any of you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me at
[Guest] ok
[Thevina] Really? You don’t mind being inundated?
[Arodriel] what a nice boy
[Thevina] I’m translating an English phrase to Sindarin, using a PDF Sindarin dictionary…
[Primula_Hornblower1] 😀
[Elostrion] Hiswelokë!
[Primula_Hornblower1] thats cool Thevina
[Elaran] Elostrion – whose theory is it exactly that you can suffic -n to the end of the previous word?
[Elaran] *suffix
[Thevina] Thanks, Primula. It sounded Elvish even in English- wanted to translate it for her for fun. Plus I was sure it would look gorgeous in Tengwar.
[Arodriel] is there a book souly based on how to speak elvish?
[Guest] elostrion, are you the teacher
[Elaran] Elostrion???
[Primula_Hornblower1] Tengwar is not easy
[Elostrion] I am Guest
[Elostrion] I pm’d you Elaran
[Guest] oh ok
[Elaran] uh, how do I check pms?
[Thevina] Tengwar isn’t too bad… just put the symbols to the right in Sindarin, to the left or right above in Quenya… basically…
[Elostrion] Arodriel, there are none available in the US
[Thevina] (to represent vowels, that is)
[Arodriel] that stinks
[Arodriel] write one
[Elassar] is there any books I can find that teaches Sindarin
[Arodriel] 🙂
[Elassar] ?
[Thevina] There are some online lessons for Quenya, if memory serves…
[Elassar] where?
[Elostrion] Elassar, there are no reliable books on the shelf
[Thevina] A chap in Finland has them.
[Thevina] sorry… that’s probably not very helpful! 😛
[Arodriel] how much longer are you gonna be on Elostrion?
[Elostrion] A few minutes
[Guest] there are some basics for tengwar and some other stuuf in the back of the book the return of the king
[Thevina] Okay… Elostrion, thank you, and I’ll be here on time next week.
[Arodriel] same
[Tauriel] Online Quenya lessons are at
[Guest] same
[Arodriel] i had to babysit and i missed it yet again
[Thevina] Tauriel!
[Tauriel] Hi 🙂
[Arodriel] i gotta go eat so thanks elostrion, namarie!
[Elostrion] You’re welcome
[tigere47] namarie arodiel
[Elostrion] Navaer mellyn nîn!
[Elassar] thank you!
[Halladaliel] thanks again and see you week!
Lembas_n_Cram opens the door, waves, and walks out into the night
Elostrion has left #thehalloffire

Posted in Old Special Reports on February 13, 2003 by

Comments are closed.