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Narvi
Lorien
May 16, 2:35pm
Post #1 of 10
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spoilery trailer interpretation thread
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Greetings and well-met! I'm re-emerging after a long absence to engage in one of my favorite activities associated with Tolkien adaptations: speculation! I think that this probably merits its own thread if folks want to chime in with references to previously leaked material. Hopefully the floodgates of promotional material will finally and fully open over the next few months, as SD-CC approaches. I'm just going to post my own frame-by-frame interpretation of the teaser and then a followup of the behind-the-scenes featurette (boy I haven't used that term since talking about LotR Extended Edition content...).
Trailer
0:00 Halron walks into Mordor/final scene of S1
0:05 Halron brooding: in Mordor or in flashback? At the end of the trailer we see the creation of his fortress in the Forodwaith (this is not Barad-dur: there is far too much ice and the silhouette is the same as in S1 Ep1
0:08 Durin IV makes some sort of speech before the assembled dwarves of Moria. To what ancient evil does he refer? It is later revealed that this is a call-to-arms: if it were the Balrog under discussion, surely fighting would be out of the question. Methinks he refers to the invasion of Eregion. We know how that ended...clearly his rhetoric will not prevail. Note that he is wearing his gorget: Durin III seems to have restored him to his rightful place, perhaps after having a change-of-heart regarding the mithril?
0:10 Black worm monster: the most convincing explanation that I've seen of this is that it is Sauron shapeshifting, perhaps after fleeing the destruction of Beleriand. You can see an arm and head taking shape as the figure crawls up/out of an abyss. Is the poison rotting the great mallorn in Lindon related to this form? Galadriel does say "I think he's been among among us this whole time..."
0:15 One of the more puzzling scenes. The behind-the-scenes video confirms that these are undead of some sort, although I hesitate to call them "barrow-wights", as 1. there are no barrows visible and 2. the famous barrow-wights of the Barrow-Downs are a Third Age phenomenon dependent on the sack of Cardolan by Angmar (the wights presumably possessed the resurrected bodies of the kings and nobles of that realm). That is not to say wights as a phenomenon are off the table in the Second Age: there's plenty of room for necromancy in Middle-earth, especially with Sauron and the Mystics wandering around. The costume of one of these figures is revealed in the behind-the-scenes video and provides a clue as to the identification of this figure's origins. They do appear to be kings or nobles with a link to the sea...
It should also be noted that Calam Lynch appears in the rear of the shot (which, I'm sorry, is straight out of the Weathertop scene in PJ's Fellowship of the Ring, not the Avengers as some are suggesting). It was speculated that he was cast as Celeborn, but this rumor was debunked. There is another rumor that he is yet another form of Sauron ("He's been among us all this time..."). I am agnostic on this. Like Selina Lo, who also appears in this scene, he is likely just another elven warrior.
It might be helpful to track Galadriel and Elrond's costumes in different scenes, as they change multiple times. Here we see G. and E. in green cloaks and grey tunics, which I'll call their "travelling gear". This differs from their Lindon outfits, which appear identical to the costumes from S1 E8, perhaps indicating that this journey and spooky encounter takes place a few episodes into S2.
0:25 Moths and bloody hands: clearly some sort of magic is being performed. The moths link with both the Stranger and the Mystics in S1. This scene probably takes place in Rhun and involves a confrontation between the Stranger and another (or the same?) Mystic from S1. Are we in Blue Wizard territory here? The next shot shows what appears to be a cloud of flittery golden things: I think that this is the swarm of moths depicted around the Mystic here. The quadrilinear pillars of this next shot do not necessarily imply that it takes place in Khazad-dum: it would well be in Rhun, as the lighting is more similar to the previous shot and notably different from the color-pallet of the Khazad-dum scenes from S1.
"He worms his way inside your mind" voiceover: this is Adar (confirmed by a commenter on a FoF video, who notes that the identification is clearer in the Spanish dub). Presumably this refers to his prior experience with Sauron. If there is a Forodwaith flashback as seems likely, this might well introduce it, as that was where Sauron experimented on Adar's "children".
0:30: Slithering roots: this takes place in the memorial grove in Lindon. Two figures appear, one standing before one of the tree-sculptures and the other further back, toward whom the roots slither. The latter is Celebrimbor, judging from his costume. Because we don't see Celebrimbor back in Lindon elsewhere, I assume that this is a flashback, and that it depicts his first encounter with Annatar, who "worms his way" into both the mallorn and C.'s mind.
0:28 Orcs march with a troll or a siege-engine through the woods of Eregion, presumably advancing on the show's version of Ost-in-edhil.
0:35: Sauron appears to Celebrimbor in Eregion. It is unclear whether this is his initial reappearance or a revelation of his true nature prior to his assault on the latter, the consequences of which we see at the end of the trailer.
0:45 Sauron as Annatar strolls through Eregion, perhaps taking advantage of the chaos caused by Adar's apparently independent assault to steal the Nine. Note that the Eregion-elves don't know he's Sauron, as G. and E. seem intent on keeping this a secret. Of course Celebrimbor would presumably recognize the face of Halbrand, but S. could presumably write this off as harmless magic (he's awfully persuasive, after all). Remember also that, at least in "On the Rings of Power and the Third Age", Celebrimbor is the only elf who disregards the suspicions harbored by his fellow Noldor and trusts Annatar in spite of it all. This doesn't preclude, and actually supports, the idea that C. knows something is off about A.'s powers and just doesn't care.
0:49 Cliffs by the sea: the behind-the scenes video confirms that this is the coast of Numenor, presumably the West Coast. Figures are visible in a kind of cliffside cave or shelf behind the "GU" of August.
0:51 G. and E. ride furiously toward the foothills of Eregion (this is a similar shot to G. and Halbrand riding there at the end of S1). They are wearing their travelling garb: does this scene take place after their adventure with the wights? Why are they in such a hurry?
0:53 Miriel (clearer in the behind-the-scenes) in a trippy dream sequence involving a sea-monster.
0:55 Disa reacting to something with concern.
0:56 Durin III looks back through the hole that he blocked up at the end of S1 at the mithril, indicating his change of heart (do the dwarven rings need mithril too?). Is this prior to or a consequence of his receiving one of the Seven?
0:57 A boulder (not a balrog) collapses into a bridge in Khazad-dum. The dwarven plot in this season seems to center on some sort of geological phenomenon, perhaps instigated by the balrog waking up, which the dwarves cannot explain. They resort to their practice of singing to the mountain, perhaps in order to investigate the source of the tremors. I don't think we'll see a balrog in S2, but I do think it will play a part in causing the dwarves anxiety and leading them to seek out C.'s assistance for the protection of their realm (on analogy with the mallorn), which ultimately of course just leads to the corruption of Durin III. Presumably opening the mithril veins, rather than the balrog, is to blame for the rockfall. Perhaps this is just how they explain it away. Either way, we won't see the fall of the dwarven kingdom this season, although they will likely close the West Gate during the siege of Eregion.
1:00 Strife in Numenor, with Elendil reaching for someone. Is it Miriel? or Earien? The Numenorean guards are keeping back the crowd. They are in on whatever conflict (coup?) is occurring behind them. Is Pharazon in the process of killing the great eagle of Manwe?
1:00 Galadriel screams: sack of Eregion and bannerification of Celebrimbor? Or a memory of the War of Wrath?
1:01 a menacing orc stands before a trebuchet at the siege of Eregion
1:02 Eregion with the siege-camp in the background.
1:04 The three (with Cirdan!)
1:06 the mallorn of Lindon is restored by the power of Gil-galad's ring?
1:07 Durin III receives his ring
1:09 Elven acrobatics featuring Arondir and Isildur (post-escape from Mordor)
1:11 An eagle arrives at the citadel of Armenelos (sans rider) and alights in front of the rotunda. A figure appears before it, standing closer to it than the rest of the crowd in the wide-shot. Pharazon? In the next scene he draws his sword. Either he is drawing it on the eagle or on an opponent in the crowd. This is very likely his coup. Note that he is NOT riding the eagle.
1:14 Theo weeps, likely at the death of Bronwen
Isildur is menaced by something above him.
1:15 Trebuchets fire at Eregion. Note that the river is still there...leaked photos suggest that this doesn't remain the case for long.
1:16 Adar draws his sword in front of a crowd of very spooky orcs (especially the one on the right).
1:17 The Stranger does some magic in front of a well in the desert of Rhun. Is he trying to summon water? Vaguely biblical/mythological allusion to various figures striking stones with staves in similar situations.
1:18 Nori blasted by a sandstorm (or the Stranger's magic?) holding onto the ropes of the aforementioned well.
Galadriel shoots a flaming arrow
1:19 orcs perish in a fiery explosion: related to G.'s fire-arrow?
1:20 Elrond leads a charge of elven cavalry in classic Second Age armor (Weta influence very strong here)
1:21 An injured and frightened Celebrimbor attempts to destroy the Nine: is this a precaution against Adar's invading forces or Sauron?
1:22 C. (missing one hand) and the Gwaith-i-Mirdain confront Annatar, who prepares to unleash a spell
1:26 Flashback to the creation of Sauron's fortress/forge in Forodwaith, with the freezing of the local environment (remember that the extreme cold encountered by Galadriel's hunting party is magically-maintained, not merely a consequence of the snowy environs of Forodwaith, which seems to have had a tundra-environment before Sauron's arrival).
(This post was edited by Narvi on May 16, 2:45pm)
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Junesong
Rohan
May 16, 3:57pm
Post #2 of 10
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I've read it over a bunch of times. My mind crackles!
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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Eruonen
Half-elven
May 21, 6:03pm
Post #3 of 10
(1727 views)
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Fellowship of Fans made an iteresting comment
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At 0:45 It may be that the face of Halbrand was actually a reveal....maybe Sauron presents earlier in the series as another face....a different actor....who seduces Celebrimbor and only later reveals his true self. It is the only way to have a believable character as a wig is not sufficient.
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Narvi
Lorien
May 21, 6:23pm
Post #4 of 10
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I'd buy that theory. However, I also don't see the need for him to disguise his face if he returns to Eregion. In the absence of Galadriel and Elrond, there is nobody there who knows his true identity (or even that he's an unsavory character). I could easily believe that Celebrimbor would welcome him back, considering how useful an assistant he proved in the past. His shapeshifting could easily be explained to Celebrimbor if he reveals his identity as a Maia or some other "magical" entity (which is canonical). Galadriel would only rouse Celebrimbor's suspicions when he visits her in the memorial grove in Lindon, which could trigger her red-tinged PTSD moment.
Of course, it would be much simpler for them to go with a face-shift! I wonder which actor has been cast to portray the face he presents to the elves.
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Junesong
Rohan
May 21, 6:39pm
Post #5 of 10
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I really hope that the next season is full of flashbacks to and from events we know from season one.
In fact - to test this theory I've gone back and started a sixth re-watch of season one with the new teaser trailer in mind.
It has underlined something about season one that has always stuck out to me - namely, that there already seems to be an urgency and confusion among the elves. The whole story of darkness creeping, and the need for mithril, the need for a forge etc - really sticks out in season one as been an effect rather than a cause.
Now - if I'm right it would make the writing in Rings of Power extremely bold. I can't think of a show before that's had such a wonky season one because it was hoping to flash back to the same events later with more meaning. It's not really a great writing strategy and would be a huge swing for the fences from the production if it's true.
BUT - I think it is true. A lot of the interview comments leading up to season one seem to hint at this. I remember, in particular, one interview wherein the showrunners talked about their FIVE SEASON arc that will eventually sit on their bookshelves as five new volumes. They went on to say that if fans can endure the first season's slow roll of world building etc, the second season would deliver on a lot of their expectations.
I'm hoping I'm right. If so - it won't just result in a potentially bigger audience for season two - but it will also probably cause a lot of people to want to go back to season one again so they can see it from a new perspective.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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DwellerInDale
Rohan
May 21, 7:14pm
Post #6 of 10
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A while back, a fellow created a YouTube video that presented a theory concerning Sauron and flashbacks. Remember the introduction to Elrond in Season 1? There was a comment by the elf maiden concerning a meeting that was for "Elf Lords only", so we never saw this meeting and didn't think much more about it. What if at that meeting, one of the Elf Lords was Lord Annatar? And if so, could he have been sent on an external mission? If his face and form were different from those of "Halbrand", that would solve the problem of how to have Sauron return to aid Celebrimbor in the creation of the remaining rings.Thus, Season 2 could show this meeting of "Elf Lords only" in a flashback.
Don't mess with my favorite female elves.
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Junesong
Rohan
May 21, 8:09pm
Post #7 of 10
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Exactly! There are moments like that all over season one.
The problem is that there's pretty broad consensus that season one was badly written. BUT - this story strategy (if it's true) would just appear like more bad writing until season two. I'll go further and say that it could be true that the first season had blanks in it that season two is meant to fill in AND it's still bad writing.
I just think the hints are there.
I've been saying since S1E1 that the contrarian elf that's with her party and eventually mutinies and says they need to go home IS Sauron (or one of his ambassadors) He gives her the weirdest looks - especially on the boat to Valinor.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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Junesong
Rohan
May 21, 8:11pm
Post #8 of 10
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Bad writing or not - there's NO WAY Sauron was on that barge accidentally to meet Galadriel. We'll find out why he's on that barge for sure in season two.
"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
May 22, 1:29am
Post #9 of 10
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At 0:45 It may be that the face of Halbrand was actually a reveal....maybe Sauron presents earlier in the series as another face....a different actor....who seduces Celebrimbor and only later reveals his true self. It is the only way to have a believable character as a wig is not sufficient.
Or more likely, the writers continue to misjudge or disrespect the intelligence of their audience just as much as they did thinking we would miss how Halbrand was obviously Sauron all along (Shocking, I say!) in Season 1, and all the blatant little clues they thought were clever. Or to be less cynical and more generous, the writers, absent of hubris against the audience, are simply poor at what they do.
Bad writing or not - there's NO WAY Sauron was on that barge accidentally to meet Galadriel. We'll find out why he's on that barge for sure in season two.
I would have the same doubts about planning ahead for the story of the raft being anything more the writers contriving the whole thing as coincidence for plot's sake than any real planning. What's happening in my head here is that I desperately hope it was planned. I can fall into the same traps as anyone else who wishes I'm not wasting years of my life. Have I mentioned the last season of Game of Thrones? The desperation for hopeless meaning to the six or seven years already invested is like that.
What I see are the same excuses and benefits of doubt being made. Good luck. It would be nice to be wrong.
That said, recall that Season 2 was mostly locked in by end of Season 1. There was not much chance for feedback to have any effect. Look to Season 3 for any true improvement.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on May 22, 1:33am)
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Eruonen
Half-elven
May 22, 1:36am
Post #10 of 10
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However, if he was on the boat to Valinor, are we left to assume he somehow
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jumped off like Galadriel and somehow conjured a raft with other people?
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