|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 3, 10:22pm
Post #1 of 6
(4173 views)
Shortcut
|
|
A Silmarillion question about Aule and Dwarven creation.
|
Can't Post
|
|
The last time I read the early chapters and the creation of the Dwarves a thought struck me. We are often told that only Eru can create life. Even the 2nd person in creation, Melkor could not and certainly even the other major Vala such as Manwe could not. So, how in Eru's name did Aule create the Dwarves? Hes not even number 3 in the order of creation more like 7 or 8 and he was mosty into crafts. How did he create life when even Melkor could not? Actually another question is did Aule create mortallity before Eru as well. I wonder if anyone else noticed this reading the Silmarillion.
|
|
|
Silvered-glass
Lorien
Apr 4, 10:51am
Post #2 of 6
(4140 views)
Shortcut
|
I think the clear implication is that Valar are capable of creating biological robots that count as life from a materialistic perspective but can't create souls.
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Apr 4, 8:41pm
Post #3 of 6
(4119 views)
Shortcut
|
That's a good summary.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
Curious
Half-elven
Apr 8, 12:36pm
Post #4 of 6
(3863 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Valar can and do create animals and plants.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
From The Nature of Middle-earth, a compilation of minor writings by J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Carl F. Hostetter and published in 2021 in a single book, under “The Primal Impulse”:
“For it seems clear in such lore as we have received from the Valar, that they started the unfolding of living patterns at many different points in the Music, and so also in Eä – only so can we understand the power which the Valar certainly have and certainly exercised in days of old, of making things with life corporeal – as if one should set many springs flowing in different places.”
So perhaps the original dwarves were more like beasts than biological puppets. They possessed life corporeal, but lacked spirits or souls.
On the other hand, unlike other beasts the original dwarves were not previously authorized by Eru, although he accepted them after their creation, and gave them spirits or souls.
Although Eru gave dwarves souls, they seem more firmly rooted in the corporeal world than humans. Thus the Great Rings do not make their bodies disappear.
(This post was edited by Curious on Apr 8, 12:45pm)
|
|
|
Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Apr 18, 10:38am
Post #5 of 6
(3483 views)
Shortcut
|
But it does seem that the Dwarves where slightly more than dum beasts. And then why is Melkor said to be so annoyed that he cant create life? Mind I suppose that this begs the question of what exactly intelligent life is even in Tolkien's world. Simply the abiity to speak? Or is it more subtle than that. Some of the more intelligent trees but not full-blown Ents? Or some of the Rohan horses? Or Eagles in the misty mountains?
|
|
|
Eldy
Tol Eressea
May 15, 1:02am
Post #6 of 6
(1283 views)
Shortcut
|
it does seem that the Dwarves where slightly more than dum beasts.
... the Dwarves as we see them in virtually the entire legendarium are fully people, in possession of souls like Elves and Men, but the very first Dwarves were not like that when Aulë created them. It wasn't until Ilúvatar grants the Dwarves souls that they had a true autonomous existence as their own beings, not merely extensions of their creator's will: "Dost thou not see that these things have now a life of their own, and speak with their own voices? Else they would not have flinched from thy blow, nor from any command of thy will." (TS, ch. 2) This is illustrative of Silvered-glass's excellent summary.
|
|
|
|
|
