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The One Ring Forums:
Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
May 4, 7:43pm
Views: 187552
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I had no idea there were so many references. How'd I miss all this?! Thank you for finding all this.
Questions:
1. Do you have any general comments or reactions after reading all those quotes about trees in the Shire?
First, there's frequently a sense from how Tolkien worded things, that trees in general have, or appear to have some wort of person-hood, or agency: They are proud, they rustled their dry leaves (as if they did it without any external cause), they sail, and whisper.
And then there seems to be 3 main categories for the Hobbit's interactions with trees:
1. trees as comfort: “deep resin-scented darkness of the trees, and gathered dead sticks and cones to make a fire. Soon they had a merry crackle of flame at the foot of a large fir-tree and they sat round it for a while, until they began to nod. Then, each in an angle of the great tree’s roots, they curled up in their cloaks and blankets, and were soon fast asleep.“ And: “He was lying in a bower made by a living tree with branches laced and drooping to the ground.” But never really adapted to the needs of other creatures: Frodo found that "a tree-root had made a hole in his back, and that his neck was stiff.”
2. Trees for shelter and safety: “ . . . peered cautiously above one of the great roots,” and “ . . . could be entered by a great crack on the side away from the road. The hobbits crept inside, and sat there upon a floor of old leaves and decayed wood,” and “Quickly and quietly they slipped off the path and rand into the deeper shade under the oak-trees,” and “"The hobbits scrambled down a steep green bank and plunged into the thick trees below.”
3. Just plain joy and beauty:
"So Sam planted saplings in all the places where specially beautiful or beloved trees had been destroyed.”
"Spring surpassed his wildest hopes. His trees began to sprout and grow, as if time was in a hurry and wished to make one year do for twenty. In the Party Field a beautiful young sapling leaped up: it had silver bark and long leaves and burst into golden flowers in April. It was indeed a mallorn, and it was the wonder of the neighborhood."
2. Knowing that ents and huorns and other trees that seem mobile exist in Middle Earth -- with some as close as the Old Forest -- do you think the trees in the Shire have any awareness? Do you think Sam's cousin Hal might have seen an ent? See my first comment, above. I think Tolkien likes suggesting the idea of some awareness and limited mobility, while leaving it deliberately uncertain whether he really had anything like that in mind with these "regular" trees. That's really part of what creates the sense of romance, and of the unknown, hanging just out of sight.
However, I always did think it was an Ent Hal saw, although someone somewhere on the boards recently said that it predated Tolkien's fully-fleshed-out ideas of Ents. But Tolkien left it in, even after he had finished the Ent chapters; and I'm sure he would not have been unaware that after encountering Treebeard, most readers would expect Hal's sighting to be something Entish.
3. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the trees in the Shire are at least as aware and mobile as the trees in the Old Forest. Does that change your reading of those quotes? What actions do the trees in the Shire take, and with what purpose, if they are awake? I personally don't think they're mobile in terms of moving from one place to another--for the most part. I think most are just ordinary trees, but I think that ordinary trees (at least in Middle-earth), are much more aware and possessed of agency than anyone expects or assumes.
4. Did the tree root that made a hole in Frodo's back wake him up on purpose after cradling the hobbits during their sleep? Was it aware of a danger that Frodo didn't know about? I just think it meant he was lying on a knob on the root, and it made a dent when he rolled over during the night, in keeping with the uncomfortable sleeping arrangement which caused his stiff neck. I don't think we're meant to picture an actual, bleeding "hole": and I think also not something caused on purpose. I think the idea is to convey that, while other creatures may find trees convenient and helpful, it's mostly by accident. The trees exist for themselves, and have importance simply as creatures in their own right--not as creations simply for the use of others. And in some ways, I think this leans towards the idea that even ordinary trees have some sort of semi-self-awareness.
5. Did the trees deliberately hide the hobbits from the Nazgul? I think, with my idea of limited sentience, except for a few Huornish outliers, it's possible to an extent, given the obvious evil and threat of the Nazgul, that some trees may have had something of an impulse to help; but I think it's largely that the Hobbits were (as Tolkien said) just really good at hiding, in the best way that presented itself.
6. It's convenient that the hobbits find a hollow -- but still living -- tree they can hide inside while eating lunch. Is it possible that the trees arranged for that? Not sure--but for entirely different purposes, the vegetation in the Old Forrest" shepherded the Hobbits towards Old Man Willow.
7. Is there any significance to the "trees whispering"? Are they talking to each other? Are they trying to talk to the hobbits? Or is it just the wind in the leaves and nothing more?
I believe Tolkien meant to let us think of the possibility, without giving anything at all away, to think of them as actually whispering, if we're so inclined (my impression is of them whispering to each other).
More later!
(This post was edited by Ethel Duath on May 4, 7:51pm)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Half-elven) on May 4, 7:51pm
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