{"id":97766,"date":"2015-04-20T15:47:21","date_gmt":"2015-04-20T20:47:21","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/?p=97766"},"modified":"2015-04-22T18:22:39","modified_gmt":"2015-04-22T23:22:39","slug":"the-bakshi-interview-uncloaking-a-legacy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/2015\/04\/20\/97766-the-bakshi-interview-uncloaking-a-legacy\/","title":{"rendered":"The Bakshi Interview: Uncloaking a Legacy"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Bakshi\"<\/a> On March 28, 2015 TheOneRing.net livestreamed an interview with animation pioneer Ralph Bakshi<\/a> to discuss the first-ever “The Lord of the Rings”<\/a> film (1978), and to parse the differences between homage<\/i> and rip-off<\/i> (and the not-so-nebulous chains of inspiration from one artist to another).<\/p>\n

Bakshi revealed to us that his Studio’s “LOTR” character designs and artwork were sent down to Three Foot Six in New Zealand; elevating the conversation of his impact on the live-action epic.<\/p>\n

The subversive director has lived through numerous controversies, yet remains undervalued by Ringer fans and feels personally slighted by Jackson. He carries on vigorously at 77 years old with a new crowdfunded animated work, “The Last Days of Coney Island”<\/a> and his intent to direct a “Wizards 2” follow-up to his 1977 cult hit.<\/a><\/p>\n

[Editor’s note: this article contains explicit language. Full video of the livestream Bakshi interview is viewable on final page.]<\/p>\n

America’s daring pioneer of “adult animation”<\/span><\/h4>\n

\"20150328_183717\"<\/a>Bakshi<\/a> has been one of my animation heroes for such a long time; on the short list with Ray Harryhausen, Chuck Jones, Brad Bird and Hayao Miyazaki. Although wildly different in artistry and output, they represent the most ambitious of the art form. Bakshi is America’s most daring pioneer of “adult animation” whose characters struggled (often hilariously) with sexual liberation, racial tension, violent crime and drugs. 1970s audiences gasped simply because these things were represented in cartoons<\/i>.<\/p>\n

But today we have a huge appetite for ADULT SWIM and beyond: South Park, Family Guy, and Super Jail are all in Bakshi’s long shadow. He then mainstreamed fantasy animation by collaborating with the likes of Frank Frazetta (“Fire and Ice”<\/a>) after adapting Tolkien with indelible results.<\/p>\n

When crafting our documentary “Ringers: Lord of the Fans”<\/a> I never got a chance to interview Bakshi about the pitfalls and glories of the first-ever attempt to adapt “The Lord of the Rings”<\/a> into a true piece of cinema, noted by fans for its psychedelic visual effects, saturated colors, and a rotoscoping technique based on fully produced live-action reference footage. Bakshi was the man with the guts to take on Tolkien at a time when American counterculture embraced Middle-earth like never before.<\/p>\n

\"1716329-gandalflotr<\/a> Some Ringer fans I know have disparaged Bakshi’s adaptation. Others recognize it as a creative high watermark that inspired a generation of ’70s kids to pick up Tolkien and read\u2014one of them notably being Jackson himself. Likewise Jackson’s monumental Trilogy spurred a new generation to read. Without Bakshi’s film would Jackson have known and loved the books? Here’s to cinema inspiring literacy.<\/p>\n

With the kind assistance of Bakshi’s son, Eddie, we had an almost instant agreement to interview him for our livestream on TheOneRing.net, a shockingly easy arrangement.\u00a0\"lotr-roto\"<\/a><\/p>\n

He was making a rare personal appearance at the American Cinematheque<\/a> for a special weekend of screenings to honor the filmmaker. “Heavy Traffic,” “Wizards,” and my personal favorite “American Pop” were to be shown alongside “The Lord of the Rings.”<\/p>\n

That (in)famous reputation<\/span><\/h4>\n

A short preface to illuminate my anticipation: Bakshi’s reputation for having an outsized personality preceeds him, intimidating in his stature and voice. John Kricfalusi, Canadian creator of “Ren & Stimpy,” described his mid-1970s meeting with Bakshi on our TORn TUESDAY show in August 2013:<\/p>\n

I was just sitting, waiting, but I could hear somebody bellowing, screaming at the top of their lungs, somewhere, going all through the cubicles and stuff like that; just the LOUDEST voice I’d ever heard in my life. A huge, booming voice like a god or something, right? Like Thor … with a Brooklyn accent … So finally this monster comes out, this guy is like six foot four … he looks like Paul Bunyan!<\/p>\n

At the time he had this big heavy black beard, really thick, and he had black, curly hair and huge shoulders; fists THIS size … I heard him yelling at everybody, right? So I thought he was going to come out and kill me, right? Instead he comes out with this *giant* smile on his face, he grabs my hand: ‘HOW YOU DOING THERE KID?!’ Like, crushing all the knuckles in it. ‘HOW YOU DOING THERE?’ Slapping me on the back — I fly about fifteen feet!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"Screenshot_2015-04-06-20-00-36\"<\/a> (You can watch the full video here, starting at 8mins 58 seconds<\/a>. Again, explicit language warning.)<\/p>\n

Thusly forewarned I met and shook hands with the artist who created that most infamous X-rated animated feature: “Fritz the Cat.”<\/a> And there he was, smiling and squinting through his eyeglasses, simultaneously reminding me of Miyazaki-san and a giant salty teddy bear. All myths about his temper melted away. He was beaming at the guests; pleased to meet and mingle as champagne was passed around. The ‘Clifford the Big Red Dog’ meme was the one I offered so he’d remember my name and he actually laughed.<\/p>\n

However, getting his microphone ready, Bakshi said, “TheOneRing.net? I did a huge interview with you that you guys never used.” I knew nothing of this and was caught off-guard. “Two and a half hours this kid kept me on the phone and never used it,” Bakshi continued flatly. “I’m surprised you showed up.”<\/p>\n

The mystery of this “missing interview” he mentions is indeed an error that TheOneRing.net deeply regrets and for which I personally apologize.<\/p>\n

\"18-the_lord_of_the_rings_ralph_bakshi\"<\/a><\/p>\n

I introduced him as “One of my favorite fellows in the world of animation” and further asked: “When somebody said to you: ‘Let’s do “The Lord of the Rings”‘ did you ever stop and think to yourself, ‘Oh, what am I getting myself into?'”<\/p>\n

An identical question I had put to Peter Jackson years before. Bakshi was quick to correct the record.<\/p>\n

“First of all — no one ever asked me to make “The Lord of the Rings… You’re the Number One network and you don’t know the whole story?” he pressed. I mentioned we spoke with Peter S. Beagle<\/a> in “Ringers” in an effort to document that very story, and Bakshi joked: “How would he know the whole story? He’s just the writer.”<\/p>\n

He then proceeded to illuminate the rather accelerated and fascinating process by which he went from the United Artists offices to the MGM suites across the way and petitioned to adapt “LOTR”\u00a0in his own unique way, originally intending multiple films. Bakshi had a studio-bought 300-page script in hand that was unwieldy, unworkable, and significantly altered from Tolkien, by all accounts. Bakshi professed that the studio’s top brass didn’t understand the property at all.<\/p>\n

“It wasn’t a major property in those days! No one knew it — everyone hated it … They couldn’t read all those books. And that’s why I got it, because I knew it was great. The guy they gave it to couldn’t do it; he didn’t understand it. He took three books and tried to make one picture with new characters; maybe he put Superman in there too, I don’t know…”<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Deal done in just two days<\/span><\/h4>\n

\"lotrj\"<\/a> Even though United Artists had acquired the rights for some $3 million they were quick to give Bakshi the chance to make it. This criss-crossing deal took only two days. Compare that to the many years of wrangling it took to get the most recent “Hobbit” film trilogy made. In a few short minutes I learned more of the integral history of the players on the table and how, after one key player at U.A. was fired and the deal almost called off, Bakshi got Saul Zaentz to come on board.<\/p>\n

Zaentz’s label Fantasy Records had released the soundtracks for Bakshi’s previous films but now he brought hard money to the table to buy out United Artists’ interest and actually produce “Rings.”<\/p>\n

Bakshi was an original Ringer fan himself. He walked in the door simply as a visual artist who loved Tolkien’s books. What more earnest way to start such an endeavor? Zaentz brought his business acumen to bear and set up Tolkien Enterprises, which has ever since controlled and licensed all versions of “The Hobbit” and “The Lord of the Rings” in all media; including movies, stage musicals, video games, and merchandise.<\/p>\n

Thus, a money-printing empire was built on the backs of the animators Bakshi had brought together with his singular vision for how Middle-earth could live on film. So it all worked out great for Zaentz, as you can imagine, whose Estate continues to license these properties to other producers, toy-makers, etc.<\/p>\n

\"photo\"<\/a><\/p>\n

The shadow of the past<\/span><\/h4>\n

\"OLYMPUS<\/a><\/p>\n

I figured my admiration for him would be apparent if I revealed how many other great artists I had already pursued to get stories about him. Even the late, great David Carradine (“Kung Fu,” “Kill Bill”) appears in “Ringers” with a surprising anecdote about trying to visit Bakshi at his offices in 1977 to convince the director to cast him as the lead role of Aragorn (which, of course, didn’t happen).<\/p>\n

Bakshi wasn’t impressed nor did he seem to recollect the event.<\/p>\n

When asked if he would ever revisit “LOTR” and make the ‘Part Two’ that never got made he grinned: “Well I don’t want to embarrass Peter Jackson by making a better film.”<\/p>\n

We both genuinely laughed and I said “That’s funny,” but when he abruptly stopped, looking at me twice, I hoped he hadn’t taken it the wrong way.<\/p>\n

\"aragorn_5\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Eddie Bakshi sold quite a few pieces of art, backgrounds, and design work from his father’s film to Three Foot Six, Jackson’s production company, while work on the new Trilogy was underway. Bakshi’s animation team was a golden group of talent he had carefully cultivated and was rightly proud of.<\/p>\n

He continued:<\/p>\n

\"bakshi-strider\"<\/a> So [Jackson] got a good head start. We at Bakshi Productions were very few but great artists who did a lot of great designing to enable that film to be realized the way it was … We did a lot of work that certainly Peter Jackson should, and could, look at to get — even if he didn’t like it — to get an idea of a direction. When we started we had no direction at all. We created the direction of the “Rings,” and the styles and the designs, and the types of voices … Because I had to audition voices … All of this a lot of kids don’t understand. The voices of Gandalf, how he looked, Aragorn, all that, was directed and designed by my studio and myself and the choices we made — Treebeard — all very difficult to make … So everything we created no one else had done before. It was there for anyone to use that would make “Rings 2″ … And [it was] very, very difficult but I think we succeeded more than we lost.”<\/p>\n

Unafraid of criticism… and to criticize<\/span><\/h4>\n

As you would expect from an artist who has created controversy (and its attendant notoriety) Bakshi is unafraid of criticism. He is also equally unafraid to criticize. He certainly doesn’t think Tolkien’s 1940’s vision of fantasy is appropriately represented by modern heaps of “special effects garbage,” preferring to show his animated fantastical realms on a controlled scale that can “encapsulate the fantasy and the dream.”<\/p>\n

He acknowledges that true Ringer fans would likely never be satisfied by anyone’s adaptation of Tolkien: “You’re never gonna make fans happy because they’re fans<\/i>. Each fan sees it in his own way. As they should!”<\/p>\n

\"Celeborn_Galadriel_1978\"<\/a><\/p>\n

He later followed up with:<\/p>\n

“All my dialogue was 100% Tolkien out of the book. I told Peter Beagle not to change anything. ‘Don’t add your great lines.’ Tolkien needs no help … So you guys finally get to interview me and I’m telling you this. And I’m wondering why it took you so long. I’ve got to be frank with you.”<\/p>\n

I pulled out a photograph of both directors seated together at their first meeting at the 1992 Sitges Fantasy Film Festival, several years before Jackson would produce his film Trilogy.<\/p>\n

Before showing him the image I said, “I read that Peter Jackson was so\u00a0inspired by your version of ‘Rings’ that he …”<\/span><\/p>\n

Bakshi’s incredulity was only half playful: “No shit! You’re kidding?! Are you kidding? You really\u2014you really mean that?”<\/p>\n

“I read it.”<\/p>\n

“Oh my heart breaks.”<\/p>\n

“And I heard him say it on an Audio Commentary track somewhere …”<\/p>\n

Bakshi was suddenly Tom Cat toying with Jerry Mouse’s clueless nephew, Nibbles. “He DID say it?!”<\/p>\n

“… He went on a cross-county train trip and because he had seen your film …”<\/p>\n

“Yeah?!”<\/p>\n

“… he picked up the book and started reading it for the very first time, at that tender age.”<\/p>\n

“Oh my God, tender… \u00a0Tender as a knife in my gut.”<\/p>\n

\"img179\"<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Homage? Tip of the hat? Rip-off?<\/span><\/h4>\n

Quite simply, I was not the person he wanted to hear this from, however earnest. Bakshi had been waiting to hear this from someone else. Too late I realized this. I wanted our tangent to cover ‘Artists inspiring other Artists’ but his resentment came to the fore when I showed him that photo.<\/p>\n

He professed:<\/p>\n

“Peter Jackson never called me once to thank me for getting the rights … He was very … He never called me once about getting the rights. He never called me once to tell me he was doing the film. And now you’re showing me a picture of him with me seven years before … What does that mean? … The guy snuck up and took a picture of me — you took a picture of me today, I never saw you before. So the point is: Peter Jackson was very, what is the word, impolite <\/i> to Ralph Bakshi. And he said once, somewhere, that I was his inspiration. He said it only once, one time somewhere. You read every interview he’s given, you don’t see it at all. So you want to stop that?”<\/p>\n

Faced with his mercurial shift in temperament I chose my words carefully. “Well, I do see exact shots that are obviously an homage to your shots.”<\/p>\n

He was quicker than quick: “Oh? What’s an homage? … What does the word homage<\/i> mean?”<\/p>\n

“Let’s define it!” I said. “Should it be an ‘homage?’ Should it be a ‘tip of the hat?’ Or is it a little bit something else?”<\/p>\n

“It’s a rip-off…”<\/p>\n

I jumped right to Everard Proudfoot as the best example of Jackson paying homage to him. Ringers know the scene well — Bilbo’s birthday speech, he runs a list of Shire family surnames — you know the rest. In the Director’s Commentary found on every Extended Edition of “The Fellowship of the Ring” you can hear Jackson saying:<\/p>\n

My first introduction to ‘The Lord of the Rings’ was when I saw the Ralph Bakshi cartoon film in 1978. And even though our movie obviously is stylistically very different and the design is different; there is one shot which I regard as my homage to the cartoon. Because it did inspire me to want to read the book. And that’s the shot of Proudfoot shouting ‘PROUDFEET’ where I deliberately copied the angle that Ralph Bakshi used; which I thought was brilliant.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"proudfoot6\"<\/a>\"lotr01a\"<\/a><\/p>\n

This acknowledgment is very straightforward. But it is abundantly clear that Bakshi’s expectation was for a personal communication from the next director who endeavored to adapt The Lord of the Rings, whomever that would have been. He’s a man with a strong ethic; call it an Old World Artist’s ethic, if you will.<\/p>\n

He demands the same directness that he gives. A t\u00eate-\u00e0-t\u00eate was what Bakshi wanted.<\/p>\n

He continued: “An homage is when you take<\/i> something — and you want to cover it up … Leave me alone.”<\/p>\n

I had always believed the textbook definition was: ‘Something done or given in acknowledgment of the worth of another.’<\/p>\n

How honestly do we express the value of an artistic item by reusing it in another form? Is it disingenuous when an homage is used but not claimed?<\/p>\n

Who is being inspired?<\/span><\/h4>\n

Though an “incomplete” film, Bakshi’s adaptation had wider influence than you’d guess. People cite many similarities between his version and Jackson’s — there’s even a site with shot-for-shot comparisons. This exercise doesn’t illuminate much, really, until you look at WHO was so strongly influenced by Bakshi. Take the shot of the Nazg\u00fbl hovering over the tree roots while the hobbits hide underneath:<\/p>\n

\"Bakshi-and-Jackson-are-painting-the-same-picture-using-different-techniques\"<\/a><\/p>\n

The first impression is that Jackson copied the scene (and the camera angle) wholesale from Bakshi. Not quite. The fact is that Jackson hired well-known\u00a0Canadian illustrator John Howe to work on his films, who once created this wonderful painting for the 1987 Tolkien Calendar, almost a decade after the release of Bakshi’s film:<\/p>\n

\"TheBlackRider\"<\/a><\/p>\n

On his website, Howe admits the influence:<\/p>\n

This painting was inspired by the Bakshi movie, where the Hobbits cower under a tree root as the Black Rider seeks them. I thought it was the best scene in the movie, and it must have trod a path in my subconscious, as it certainly is nowhere to be found in ‘The Fellowship of the Ring’.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

<\/p>\n

Webs and strands of creative influence<\/span><\/h4>\n

The connective tissue between “inspiration” and “originality” is right there, and I understand Bakshi’s complaint more clearly. Is it any surprise really that Howe and other wonderful artists working on Jackson’s production\u00a0were inspired by Bakshi? This is how representational art become so indelible that is seeps into the “creative ether,” to be tapped and to resurface in the works of those who follow.<\/p>\n

Of course our beloved Professor Tolkien did not work in a vacuum either. His literary influences are numerous and well-documented. Scholar and friend to TheOneRing.net Douglas A. Anderson tells us in his wonderful edition “The Annotated Hobbit”<\/a> that:<\/p>\n

Tolkien himself claimed that ‘The Hobbit’ was derived from ‘previously digested’ epic, mythology, and fairy story. We can name such sources: BEOWULF, the fairy-tale collections of Andrew Lang and the Brothers Grimm, works by E.H. Knatchbull-Hugessen, Rudyard Kipling, William Morris, and George Macdonald, especially the latter’s ‘Princess and the Goblin’ and its sequel ‘The Princess and Curdie.’<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"TheBooksofMagic_Paperback_1185749905\"<\/a> Then there was “The Marvellous Land of Snergs,” (1927) by E.A. Wyke-Smith. A fun children’s story about a diminutive race of Snergs (stand-in for Hobbits) and one in particular named Gorbo<\/i>. Umm, shades of Bilbo<\/i>.<\/p>\n

Genre fiction as a “stew”<\/span><\/h4>\n

Terry Pratchett (the “Discworld” series) once described genre fiction as “A stew … You take stuff out of the pot. You put stuff back in. The stew bubbles on.” When I interviewed him for our documentary he also wisely recognized the “Mount Fuji” analogue to Tolkien; saying that writers of fantasy always have Tolkien somewhere in the back of their minds (and their creations) just as Mount Fuji is so ubiquitous in every damn Japanese watercolor print you’ll ever see. Pratchett explains: “In those prints where you don’t see Mount Fuji in the background it is because the artist is actually standing on Mount Fuji.”<\/p>\n

Note Tolkien’s influence over Terry Brooks (the “Shannara” series), George R.R. Martin (“A Game of Thrones”) and certainly J.K. Rowling (I won’t even credit her book, you all know it). The character Bathilda Bagshot appears as a sly reference to Tolkien but the concept of a horcrux<\/em> also stands out to many. After all, the One Ring of power is certainly the most frightening and looming horcrux ever conceived. But it wasn’t the first.<\/p>\n

\"grid-cell-14969-1375222023-8\"<\/a> Rowling has often been accused of borrowing, perhaps too heavily, from a variety of sources. The biggest target is the easiest, and readers have well-noted her boy wizard’s similarities to Timothy Hunter in Neil Gaiman’s “The Books of Magic”<\/a> graphic novel from DC Comics.<\/p>\n

When asked if he was bothered by Harry Potter’s resemblance to his own character (they are both bespectacled, orphaned, 12-year-old English boys who suddenly discover their magical heritage and have an affectionate owl to accompany them) his mellow response may surprise. To a nosy Scottish reporter Gaiman said:<\/p>\n

No, I certainly didn’t<\/i> believe that Rowling had ripped off ‘Books of Magic,’ that I doubted she’d read it and that it wouldn’t matter if she had: I wasn’t the first writer to create a young magician with potential, nor was Rowling the first to send one to school. It’s not the ideas, it’s what you do with them that matters.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

\"tumblr_mznrrn6vUy1ssmm02o2_500\"<\/a> Ursula K. Le Guin, celebrated author of the “Earthsea”<\/a> books, has a more measured response to Rowling’s lead character sharing things in common with her creation of Ged.<\/p>\n

Her leading hero is also a magical youth with great aptitude, sent off to a wizarding school (also bearing a scar that hurts him whenever the shadow of the enemy is near). She did not explicitly think Rowling “ripped her off” but scoffs at the heavy praise heaped on Rowling for originality<\/i>, saying:<\/p>\n

[She] could have been more gracious about her predecessors. My incredulity was at the critics who found the first book wonderfully original. She has many virtues, but originality isn’t one of them. That hurt.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

These concepts fully contextualize what Bakshi is talking about (the animator was himself influenced by his passion for fine art, specifically the famed Spanish painter Francisco Goya).<\/p>\n

Blurring the lines\u00a0<\/span><\/h4>\n

Unfortunately we live in a day and age where greed may unwantedly interfere with the natural evolutionary process of art. A recent U.S. court case has blurred some of the lines between new creations and their antecedent influences. Yes, I’m referring to that woeful lawsuit between the Marvin Gaye Estate and Grammy-winning songwriters Robin Thicke and Pharrell Williams<\/a>.<\/p>\n

I agree with the writers of L.A. Weekly<\/a> who assess that the recent judgment in favor of the Gaye Estate is a *very bad precedent* for the recording industry. The 2013 hit song “Blurred Lines” doesn’t share a top-line melody or lyrics with Marvin Gaye’s “Got To Give It Up;” but the success of a flimsy lawsuit claiming it “feels like” the earlier song makes the air around this discussion more tremulous.<\/p>\n

\"robinthicke-blurredlines-sm\"<\/a> Now creators can comfortably live in constant fear of what may come if they publish\/ print\/ release their work, without knowing who may come knocking on their door claiming “copyright infringement” just because there’s a similar feel<\/em>. Lady GaGa’s 2011 hit “Born This Way” had enough similarities to Madonna’s “Express Yourself”<\/a> to become a huge distraction in the news cycle, but in the end the Material Girl responded with a middling dismissal: “I thought, ‘What a wonderful way to redo my song.’ I mean, I recognised the chord changes. I thought it was… interesting.”<\/p>\n

Nerd hero director Joss Whedon and Lionsgate are being sued<\/a> by author Peter Gallagher claiming they ripped off his book “The Little White Trip: A Night in the Pines” with their 2012 smash “The Cabin In The Woods”<\/a> (praised by all geekdom at the time for its originality<\/i>).<\/p>\n

Will the creators of the hit network show “Heroes”<\/a>\u00a0now get a phone call from Marvel Entertainment saying, “Hey this looks a lot like X-Men,” or will the Tolkien Estate go knocking on J.K. Rowling’s door and claim: “That little horcrux idea of yours, well, it’s not yours…” Absurd.<\/p>\n

Artists and writers are free to collect, absorb, and synthesize everything around them. If anyone would benefit from being a “culture sponge” it would be the visual artist. Especially interesting to watch are auteurs like Ralph Bakshi so inclined (or driven) to give us a view of the world we haven’t considered before; at least by our reckoning and short-term generational memory. There will always be a chain connecting back to the past. Being open-handed in how we recognize, acknowledge, and study these elements is vitally important. Art for art’s sake.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Anger, truth-telling and apologies<\/span><\/h4>\n

Bakshi looked out to find his daughter in the audience and asked, “What? Should I be nicer? … I just get so mad because these guys try to cover for this all the time.”<\/p>\n

I responded, “I’m not trying to cover for Peter.” I was trying to analyze the chain of influence from one filmmaker to another. I greatly admire Jackson’s work, surely, and I’ve been very enthusiastic about his take on Tolkien. It was gobsmackingly beautiful and “took the very heart of me.”<\/p>\n

I have benefited from friendships with a host of generous New Zealanders who worked on that film Trilogy, and I desire no hurt feelings. But I’ve never been a sycophant. I’ve just followed the “big story” as it unfolds. Obviously TheOneRing.net would be discussing a different director (Guillermo del Toro) if things had gone as originally planned on “The Hobbit”<\/a> Trilogy.<\/p>\n

\"photo-1\"<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

Momentarily confused about whether our interview was a livestream or would be edited later, Bakshi outright said: “Don’t tell me anything ’cause I’m getting mad now.” Someone nearby\u00a0gasped audibly. He almost got up from his chair. The chill up my spine was real. You see, he is a powerfully large man and I feared a Beorn moment of fierceness was imminent. He wanted to cancel our talk and refuse further access to the audience Q&A that was yet-to-come. All I wanted to tell him was how much I really loved his art.<\/p>\n

A few beats later, he looked at the camera and said: “I mean this is ridiculous, I’m shooting off my mouth and you’re streaming live to the people. [To the camera] I apologize out there.”<\/p>\n

“Ralph, being candid is all it’s about, we love it,” I offered.<\/p>\n

He addressed his daughter again, I’m sorry … I can’t help it.” Her voice can be heard reassuring him: “It’s all good, it’s all good, this is good stuff.”<\/p>\n

I pressed the point, “GREAT stuff! You’ve got a generation of people — me in particular — I wouldn’t have bothered reading the books, and I wouldn’t have bothered becoming a fan if I hadn’t been inspired by what I saw.”<\/p>\n

“I showed that there\u2019s a movie<\/em> in this.”<\/span><\/h4>\n

Resigning himself to the immediacy of our format, Bakshi took the opportunity to reveal decades of pent up feelings:<\/p>\n

“Look … as long as we’re live, which I’m happy about now … I can finally clear it up, let me tell you what I want to clear up okay? … You’re the biggest ‘Lord of the Rings’ network or website in the world, right? You have never interviewed me or spoke to me once or showed my artwork on your site. That’s not right<\/i>. That just doesn’t make any sense to me. But we created the characters. We fought for the ‘Rings.’ If I didn’t show that the ‘Rings’ could be made\u2014<\/span>good or bad picture<\/span>\u2014<\/span>there wouldn’t have been a live-action picture. I showed that there’s a <\/span>movie <\/i> in this.<\/span><\/p>\n

All of this I did and your website never discussed it.* … So I get very angry. Now Mr. Jackson took a lot from me, as he should have, because it was out there to take. I had nothing. And he never once called me to thank me, or to invite me to the set and ask my opinion: that’s not directorial<\/i>. That’s not right. That’s terrible. The fact that it keeps coming up, that he once said ‘I inspired him,’ that’s just P.R. baloney. In the two thousand interviews he gave he never mentioned me once. So I want to straighten out why I’m angry.<\/p>\n

So here you show up and I’m 77 years old; and you suddenly want an interview. It stuns me, where you were all these years [aside to me] I’m not mad at you<\/i>. And it stuns me at the arrogance of Mr. Jackson who never thanked me for what I had done — and the crew! The amazing job the crew did at a big budget of $4 million for the whole film — two hours. So we all worked very hard. So there’s my anger at you guys ’cause I don’t want to sit here pretending that it’s all great. Am I clear?”<\/p>\n

\"Bakshi-LOTR\"<\/a>*[Editor’s Note: TheOneRing.net affirms we have featured stories and livestream shows on Bakshi’s gallery openings, book signings and appearances over the years.]<\/i><\/p>\n

As a closing salvo the nervous fanboy in me, not the professional interviewer, won out: “I have the greatest respect for you, Mr. Bakshi. ‘American Pop’ is one of my favorite, favorite <\/i> films ever. Period. Outside of my love of other fantasy fandom. And I grew up learning to love Miyazaki and Ralph Bakshi and great animators around the world …”<\/p>\n

With a wink he shifted again: “Now you can stay!” Then he looked out to his family and laughed like a happy Asgardian (with a Brooklyn accent). He apologized, made another good joke about me never calling him years ago about “American Pop,”<\/a> and when I thanked him sincerely, he said, “Are you sure? I treated you pretty bad. I’m sorry.”<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

The studio’s disservice<\/span><\/h4>\n

His last concern was on his mistreatment by United Artists and how his\u00a0“LOTR” was not properly marketed to the public: “I’m giving you some of the things that I ran into with Peter and some of my anger … and a lot of other things that are bothering me with the “Rings” situation; and the fact that I made a film that was going to be in three parts and they never advertised it that way. And then I got a lot of hell for ‘not finishing the film.’ Well how can you finish Tolkien in one movie?”<\/p>\n

With a quick joke and a generous handshake my interview with Bakshi came to a close. After about 23 minutes I had my answers, and we hastily went out the back door to an alleyway. Hundreds of people waiting in the Aero Theatre lobby were clamoring to enter the auditorium and take their seats for the screening. There were too many. Eddie Bakshi said, “Dad, we have to go, it’s becoming a fire hazard, they’re gonna trample each other trying to get in here.”<\/p>\n