{"id":94325,"date":"2014-11-08T23:54:18","date_gmt":"2014-11-09T04:54:18","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/?p=94325"},"modified":"2014-11-09T00:04:55","modified_gmt":"2014-11-09T05:04:55","slug":"hall-of-fire-chat-log-breaking-down-the-five-armies-trailer-scene-by-scene","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/2014\/11\/08\/94325-hall-of-fire-chat-log-breaking-down-the-five-armies-trailer-scene-by-scene\/","title":{"rendered":"Hall of Fire chat log: breaking down the Five Armies trailer scene by scene"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Barliman's<\/a> A little earlier today, Hall of Fire took a detour into movie-land to pull apart the brand-new trailer for The Battle of the Five Armies.<\/p>\n

If you missed the discussion, or found the messy first hour very frustrating (sorry about that, it was unusually difficult to direct discussion), then here’s the log from the final two once we got a system going and started analysing what Peter Jackson put in front of us scene by scene.<\/p>\n

Hope you find it illuminating.<\/p>\n

Oh, and usual warning for movie spoilers over the page!<\/font><\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Okay, first scene. Bilbo and Thorin.
\n[Demosthenes] What is going on here? what’s the purpose? What’s driving it?
\n[jenniearcheo] You gave a promise
\n[Demosthenes] you gave a promise. yes.
\n[jenniearcheo] What promise? To the Lakemen?
\n[gundabad] the orcs dont march on the mountain for gold but rather because sauron doesnt want the dwarves to re-establish their kingdom. hes fearful that without the help of smaug the dwarves will become a mighty force once more’ thats from movie guide as well
\n[Demosthenes]: What is going on here? what’s the purpose? What’s driving it?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] This goes to the new scene in DOS EE at Laketown.
\n[elentari3018] promise to the dwarves.
\n[elentari3018] promise of gold?
\n[Celedreor] I think it’s about Thorin not honouring his promise to Lake-town
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Bilbo vouches for Thorin in front of the Master
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Thorin promised much to laketown
\n[paddy] now i think bilbo is trying to talk some sense into thorin cheers demos and it looks like thorin seems to be dwelling on this and giving it some thought
\n[butterfly] I think Richard said that Thorin sees Bilbo as a confidant for a while. Maybe this scene is part of that?
\n[Demosthenes] Thorin is listening intently
\n[perry] yes, I think so, too. It is about the broken promise.
\n[Celedreor] in his defense it seemed to me then that he was not offering share in the spoils of killing Smaug but rather showing them how they’d benefit from a King Under the Mountain
\n[Demosthenes] will he take Bilbo seriously?
\n[SMAUGG] if smaug didnt die , on wath side wold hi fights ?
\n[jenniearcheo] I think the argument in Erebor is Bilbo, Kili, and Dwalin pointing out to Thorin that he’s let Laketown down
\n[gundabad] sauron in the films and books imho
\n[miriel] I think the promise to laketown sounds quite likely to be the topic – and more importantly, any claims on gold in Erebor
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbo just watched Smaug destroy the town
\n[perry] do you think dwalin would have that convo with thorin in someone else’s presence? In Bilbo’s?
\n[Barry_barrowwight] May see Bilbo’s reminder as a betrayal
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I don’t know if Thorin would take the advice to heart coming from Bilbo.
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbi, Kili, and now Dwalin, though?
\n[jenniearcheo] bilbi. lol
\n[gundabad] whats topic atm? \ud83d\ude42
\n[jenniearcheo] About Scene 1
\n[jenniearcheo] Hi Puma
\n[Demosthenes] Bilbo and thorin’s contretemps
\n[Demosthenes] “you gave a promise”
\n[miriel] Bilbo and Thorin Scene: you gave a promise! current topic
\n[butterfly] I’m not sure if Thorin will listen \ud83d\ude41
\n[gundabad] this is deffo about him not sharing his gold
\n[Rantsu] I really love the dynamic between those two and their character development.
\n[paddy] well thorin towards the end of dos when he saw the gold was ya know mesmerized but later seemed to get back to his old self being a leader but seems to have forgotten the promise he made in lake town
\n[jenniearcheo] I think the scene is connected to the Kili and Dwalin discussions (however heated or calm) later
\n[Demosthenes] butterfly: do you get that impression from what we see?
\n[perry] is this the same scene where we see Thorin walking down his throne steps?
\n[elentari3018] promise of a better end
\n[Puma] that is what he said the the people of laketown
\n[Demosthenes] perry: this is the scene around 5 sec to 10 sec
\n[elentari3018] yes promise to laketown
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Thorin’s feelings for Bilbo seem to wax and wane throughout.
\n[butterfly] I don’t know, really…just the way Thorin looks at him…
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Thorin refuses Bard\u00b4s plees for help and Bilbo reminds him of the promise maybe?
\n[elentari3018] movie verse, he left with boats and such already thinking he’s king of the mountain so he can seek the help of Laketown
\n[Demosthenes] Is Thorin “gone” at this point?
\n[jenniearcheo] I think he’s going
\n[miriel] I wonder, at this point, when Bilbo has to point out he made a promise – has there already been interaction between thorin and bard to cause bilbo to say this?
\n[elentari3018] i agree with Azogthedefiler
\n[Demosthenes] good question miriel
\n[Barry_barrowwight] I think he’s pretty much gone
\n[perry] miriel,that makes sense.
\n[SMAUGG] https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=uE-1RPDqJAY
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I think he is at the edge. He is teetering, but he hasn’t fallen yet.
\n[Demosthenes] So is this a last-ditch attempt from Bilbo to reason with T?
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s hard to say
\n[miriel] SMAUGG please stay on topic
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbo in the books was also the voice of reason here
\n[butterfly] It could be after they meet up with Kili and the others, when they learn Smaug destoyed Lake town
\n[perry] But this seems to be before Thorin says, I ill have war” based on the costume
\n[PhillipF_Greece] Thorin’s weakness of mind,the love of gold will be his ruin!!!
\n[miriel] ah yes, we have that to count in as well – maybe Kili and Fili has informed thorin of the situation?
\n[jenniearcheo] The subject\/topic now is Scene 1
\n[elentari3018] i am looking forward to seeing the demise of Thorin with his pride and stubbornness
\n[miriel] and thorin just goes blank We owe them nothing
\n[jenniearcheo] The first 10 seconds
\n[paddy] smaugg we’re talking about the opening part of the trailer with bilbo talking about thorins promise
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I could see that, butterfly. Laketown is gone. Bard needs help. Thorin refuses.
\n[ashwise] maybe Bilbo says the promise line after thorin makes a comment about the gold?
\n[jenniearcheo] Next?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Thoein is almost gone but Thranduil threatning to take the mountain might be what makes him lose it<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] ok next scene
\n[AzogTheDefiler] *Thorin
\n[Silent] Or maybe a promise to the people of Laketown?
\n[Demosthenes] Bard, fire. Lake-town. what gives?
\n[Argonath] Thorin promised to “share in the wealth of our people” in DoS. Maybe that is the promise. However, after a destroyed town, is gold an riches a topic the men of former Laketown will ask of him?
\n[Demosthenes] very short glimpse
\n[smaugth3drag0n] First off, Bard look badly injured. He can barely stand.
\n[Demosthenes] what’s going on here? why is bard on this tower?
\n[perry] he doesn;t seem to have the black arrow when he gets on the parapet
\n[jenniearcheo] Burning Laketown seems to imply that the Bilbo discussion was indeed about Laketown. Bard’s pleas also seem related
\n[elentari3018] trailer talk here right? i went out for a sec
\n[ashwise] pray to get a better shot at smaug
\n[jenniearcheo] Bard appears to be up on the tower with the Ballista
\n[Silent] Bard is condemning Thorin for the ruin of Laketown in a sense
\n[Demosthenes] Bard’s bow is behind him
\n[jenniearcheo] Scene two, elentari3018
\n[miriel] on the tower is probably to do the great wind-whatever-made-up-weapon and shoot?
\n[mib_75qli9] PJ explained once in a interview why the dwarves where splitter up in 2 groups, his answer was: Bofur needs to see the attack on lake town. SO yeah I am pretty sure bofur will be important and help Bard escape the jail. he also was Important in DOS without Bofur Kili was death.
\n[Demosthenes] He *seems* to be on the tower with the windlance?
\n[jenniearcheo] Windlance.Ballista. thing
\n[paddy] bard looks badly injured but im looking forward to the rooftop battle and if you look closely he has his bow and black arrow.
\n[Argonath] Maybe the promise was about refuge for the Men and Women of Laketown!?
\n[butterfly] But Bain his the arrow. He’ll need to retrieve it
\n[butterfly] *hid
\n[mib_g1zc3p] Bofur is the true hero of the trilogy
\n[jenniearcheo] I’m sure he did
\n[mib_g1zc3p] always looking out for bilbo
\n* mib_g1zc3p is now known as thatJustin
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think the windlance will be destroyed and he will have to fire the arrow with his longbow
\n[Demosthenes] stay on topic please.
\n[perry] i don’t see bard going up to the tower twice. either he has the arrow or not.
\n[jenniearcheo] Then we cut to “only ruin and death”
\n[miriel] Bard, fire. Lake-town. what gives? current topic
\n[butterfly] yeah, fair enough
\n[mib_75qli9] PJ explained once in a interview why the dwarves where splitter up in 2 groups, his answer was: Bofur needs to see the attack on lake town. SO yeah I am pretty sure bofur will be important and help Bard escape the jail. he also was Important in DOS without Bofur Kili was death.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] I am unclear on whether he succeeds in killing Smaug with the windlance or his own bow using the black arrow.
\n[jenniearcheo] I’m sure it’s right before he fires the killing shot
\n[paddy] i agree azog if you pause at 0:13 you can see the bow in the background
\n[elentari3018] Bard probably said that to Thorin when they all go to the mountain to seek them out
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: you could be right
\n[paddy] mib stay on topic and stop repeating yourself……….
\n[Demosthenes] it looks like a setup for a climactic scene
\n[Demosthenes] ie: the demise of smaug
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It certainly does.
\n[Demosthenes] but … smaug is not there.
\n[jenniearcheo] Interesting, AmydaughterofBev. It may be that we’re being set up to assume it’s the black iron arrow and the windlance, . . . but hat he misses agin
\n[ashwise] I was thinking that too
\n[SMAUGG] wat is the BIG opsesion of torin four the gold ?
\n[butterfly] It echoes back to what Bard said in front of the crows
\n[butterfly] *crowd
\n[jenniearcheo] Perhaps he has to grab the bow and get lucky
\n[mib_75qli9] sure paddy but how ? btw that bodur thing was about brad so it was on topic
\n[AzogTheDefiler] That scene could also be after he kills Smaug and sees him falling to the lake
\n[elentari3018] bookverse, smaug should be killed by arrow
\n[mib_75qli9] tnx
\n[Demosthenes] azog: after Bard has fired?
\n[perry] smaug should be killed by the arrow. To make saving it and hiding it make sense.
\n[Demosthenes] maybe. another good theory
\n[jenniearcheo] IN the book, of course, it was a “black arrow” that he always retrieved. That hasn’t been set up
\n[paddy] mib we’re talking about bard and smaug now……. at 0:13 seconds
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Yes the arrow is not there anymore
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Balin said “Only a black arrow fired from a windlance can pierce the dragon’s hide
\n[thatJustin] surprisingly nothing about dragon or thrush in trailer<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Okay. next scene. Bard’s line to Thorin
\n[Demosthenes] You have only brought ruin etc etc
\n[Demosthenes] what’s happening here? This is later obviously.
\n[jenniearcheo] Ah, smaugth3drag0n, but perhaps that means the scales. Not accounting for the fault in the armor.
\n[Demosthenes] go \ud83d\ude42
\n[smaugth3drag0n] What is Bard looking through? Is that Erebor inside?
\n[perry] thorin looks guilty when he heres this.
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, post-smauggie
\n[perry] hears this
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think this happens after the dwarves set up the barricade at the door and he can look through a small hole
\n[Demosthenes] yes, why does it seem like Thorin is in prison?
\n[Bofur] bard is looking thought the fixed erebor gate
\n[jenniearcheo] I think this is a gate of some sort
\n[paddy] when bard says that line it seems the dwarves can hear this as thorin seems to turn his head towards them away from bard
\n[ashwise] line was powerful. I loved the look on thorin’s face
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Well, maybe only from the windlance before, but now there is a missing scale…the soft spot. perhaps a shot from a standard bow would suffice?
\n[gothmog] thorin is on his own thinking i think
\n[Bofur] the dwarves took pieces of erebor and fixed the gate
\n[Argonath] I love how softly Bard says “death”
\n[elentari3018] yes i loved Thorin’s face too!
\n[jenniearcheo] Agreed, AmydaughterofBev
\n[elentari3018] Thorin is like the highlight of this movie
\n[butterfly] I think Thorin feels guilty, but is probably too far gone to stop \ud83d\ude41
\n[Demosthenes] it’s a lot of rock to have piled up. many feet.
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Agreed butterfly
\n[miriel] are they talking through the barricaded doors of erebor?
\n[ashwise] he look ed overwhelmed
\n[jenniearcheo] At least Thorin has the grace to look up and have a guilty expression for a moment
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The guilt seems to be building up in Thorin with the way PJ shot it askewed.
\n[jenniearcheo] I believe so, miriel
\n[elentari3018] that is one of my favorite frames of Thorin
\n[perry] and then he looks away – can;t face it, and looks to his company for their reaction.
\n[Demosthenes] Is Thorin having regrets?
\n[perry] elentari – me, too.
\n[elentari3018] i think he’s torn
\n[Demosthenes] That’s another question about this scene
\n[Demosthenes] Torn about?
\n[ashwise] I think so but briefly
\n[smaugth3drag0n] His plan is failing. Huge regrets.
\n[gothmog] yes and no demo
\n[elentari3018] he wants to keep the gold but he’s guilty about what Bard said
\n[perry] Ithink he is beginning to question. Because it is true, he brought destruciton od LT by entering the Mt.
\n[jenniearcheo] Torn between what he sees as his quest for his Destiny and the effect that’s having on innocents
\n[miriel] I guess thorin and regrets depend fully on at what point in the gold madness he is
\n[Bofur] https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=iVAgTiBrrDA at 0:20 you see the fixed Erebor gate where bard was looking throught
\n[gothmog] thorin doesnt really give a well you know once he gets his mnt
\n[SmaugInverted] But it seems strange – after that theres a wide shot, and I can’t see the hole Bard was talking through
\n[elentari3018] and thinks maybe he should relent but more so, he wants it all and can’t wait till Dain gets there
\n[AzogTheDefiler] He has the mountain again but now that he has it he doesn\u00b4t want to share even after the promise. He is pretty much gone
\n[elentari3018] he wont’ think that the destruction is his fault though
\n[Demosthenes] Is Thorin’s look related to the next flash-shot of the Company?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Has Dain been contacted atthat point do you think?
\n[gothmog] deffo
\n[ashwise] I thought his madness was really toned down
\n[perry] how can he not, in a lucid moment?
\n[Demosthenes] I think we can warp those together
\n[paddy] guys im heading off up early. demosthenes will there be a transcript of this conversation after? so i can read what ive missed? \ud83d\ude42
\n[PhillipF_Greece] am i allowed to use facts from the book??
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I think is almost gone at this point elentari3018. But the look of regret or shame on his face shows he hasn’t succumbed to the madness…yet
\n[jenniearcheo] The dwarves to seem to be looking down from their wall at something, and Thorin walking away down the steps
\n[Demosthenes] paddy: i’ll try. no guarantees tho.
\n[jenniearcheo] PhillipF_Greece: Sure if it’s relevant
\n[elentari3018] @smaugth3drag0n Yes i agree
\n[jenniearcheo] Thorin does have them build a wall in the book
\n[butterfly] i think it’s some kind of barricade
\n[Demosthenes] Yes he does. and we see in the next scene all the dwarves upon a parapet.
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes
\n* miriel nods
\n[Demosthenes] of sorts. a rear view from inside Erebor.
\n[jenniearcheo] Although it hardly looks hastily constructed
\n[SmaugInverted] In the wide shot, why is there a big hole between the columns?
\n[SmaugInverted] Remainder of Smaugs attack?
\n[Demosthenes] I think so Smaug
\n[jenniearcheo] I think that’s where Smaug came in yes
\n[ashwise] I’m thinking so
\n[Demosthenes] Or lefft \ud83d\ude42
\n[miriel] convienient hole for negotiations?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] That is where Smaug left at the end of the last film
\n[jenniearcheo] So this may merely be that parapet on which Balin and Thorin were standing
\n[perry] I have little understanding of the design of the mountain- first they’re under it then they are on a parapet.
\n[butterfly] Isn’t there a balcony above the main doors?
\n[jenniearcheo] Rather unnecessarily large to have a discussion through
\n[Demosthenes] yes butterfly that is so
\n[butterfly] I remember that in the prologue of AUJ
\n[SmaugInverted] But they built a pretty neat stair in a very short time
\n[perry] right – when thorin saves balin
\n[gothmog] yes where we saw smaug with 4 legs haha
\n[gothmog] then turns out he doesnt <\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok next point. Bilbo’s line “you have won the mountain. is that not enough?”
\n[Demosthenes] this seems linked to the mountain being pulled apart by the dwarves
\n[butterfly] I’m gonna say no…
\n[miriel] what more could he possibly want?
\n[perry] it’s a voice over, so hard to tell where it comes in?
\n[jenniearcheo] What is with the falling smashing statues?!
\n[ashwise] I like how Bilbo is addressing thorin’s greed
\n[butterfly] He wants to keep all the gold?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Could this be part of the same conversation or even the next line after Bilbo talks to Thorin about his promise?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think they demolish that statue to build that barricade
\n[elentari3018] i really liked that line-he serves as the better conscience and that is compatible to what he feels in the books
\n[SMAUGG] thats the point
\n[jenniearcheo] Is that part of building a barricade?
\n[miriel] or is it on the topic of refusing gold to laketown?
\n[butterfly] Probably part of the “promise” scene
\n[Demosthenes] I think the implication is that the mountain is not enough for Thorin.
\n[perry] home is not enough
\n[ashwise] he wants more
\n[Demosthenes] and yes i think it *is* part of building the barricade
\n[thatJustin] Thorin always said it was about reclaiming homeland – nothing about the riches
\n[butterfly] brb, guys
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Such large pieces of Erebor crashing below reminds me of the Minas Tirith battle where pieces of the city were either falling or being used as weapons against the armies.
\n[Demosthenes] This is more of a defence though
\n[jenniearcheo] Me too, SMAUGG
\n[thatJustin] Thorin decides not to share with Laketown after their loss and everyone’s like c’mon dude
\n[jenniearcheo] ack
\n[Demosthenes] i believe
\n[perry] so, the barricade would need to be built – at what point? After Bard speaks to him?
\n[Demosthenes] Before Bard surely. because the barricade is in place at that point.
\n[SmaugInverted] Good night everyone…
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Maybe when he learns Thranduil is coming
\n[Demosthenes] Causality and all.
\n[perry] I don’t think the Laketown people are worried about the riches at this point.
\n[gothmog] i do
\n[miriel] after they get news – delivered by fili\/kili\/bofur instead of by ravens?
\n[gothmog] how else are they going to rebuild their town
\n[elentari3018] would they get the news from fili and kili and bofur that quickly?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] But Perry, it really does not matter at this point. Thorin already gave them a promise that he seems to be relenting on rather quickly.<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok, and Thorin;s reply “now, we defend it.”
\n[elentari3018] faster than when the elves and Bard get there?
\n[thatJustin] Thorin watches Laketown burn and he knows they’ll be coming to Erebor looking for shelter and restitution
\n[Demosthenes] Is that actually to Bilbo?
\n[Bofur] whats the topic now ?
\n[ashwise] now we defend it
\n[AzogTheDefiler] We defend it against Thranduil who has no claim to a single coin in there
\n[perry] It depends, building their town, about how much time has passed.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The look and feel of Thorin at this point is so different from the Thorin we saw at the Hidden Door, even after the sun set. There is certainly a dark change on him already.
\n[Demosthenes] Ok, and Thorin;s reply “now, we defend it.” [– to whom is Thorin speaking? It seems as though he has resolved his “earlier” doubt
\n[elentari3018] to the whole dwarf company
\n[jenniearcheo] There we see the parapet with the turned square angular wall
\n[smaugth3drag0n] This must be the dwarves.
\n[perry] I think he is speaking to them all.
\n[elentari3018] and after Bard and elves came to ask him to relent
\n[Demosthenes] elentari3018: that seems entirely possible. Not just to bilbo then?
\n[jenniearcheo] I assume he’s replying to Bilbo’s question
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Is this when they put their new armor on, possibly?
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: i wonder if that’s a red herring \ud83d\ude42
\n[jenniearcheo] They do appear to be in armor at this point
\n[elentari3018] to Bilbo and all the dwarves?
\n[Demosthenes] yes it could be.
\n[jenniearcheo] Herring is a terrible building material. Not very strong, and eventually smelly.
\n[Demosthenes] And … at the same time we see all the dwarves lined up. And Thorin wearing the crown of Erebor.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Thorin sees either the battle or the aftermath of the battle in Dale and knows the enemy is approaching.
\n[perry] so, then some has passed after the destruction of Laketown, be cause they had time to make armor.
\n[jenniearcheo] Herringbone, on the other hand
\n[butterfly] Right, where are we?
\n[gothmog] their would be armour in erebor
\n[miriel] new topic?<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Two shots: the dwarves on the parapet, the elves of mirkwood lined up
\n[Demosthenes] bows ready to fire
\n[jenniearcheo] Flashed on the elven army with Thranduil on Warmoose with Bard by his side.
\n[miriel] same moment?
\n[perry] so men and elves ready to attack
\n[gothmog] those elves were bad cgi but the elves look ready to lay seige to erebor
\n[Demosthenes] Conflict among “allies”
\n[DuBekar] I wonder why they end up joining the battle in entirely different armor. Perhaps the “regal armor” is considered tainted by the dragon because it was found in the treasure hoard? *shrugs*
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Behind the army, you can see that Dale looks charred.
\n[perry] is it dale or laketown?
\n[Papagianni] bad CGI indeed
\n[Demosthenes] Dale i think
\n[gothmog] all the elves look the same
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s not clear at that moment why Thranduil & co. are being aggressive, until you get his next “claim something of mine” line.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] So we have the man of the lake who are in dire need of help and Thranduil, who just wants to claim the treasure because of his greed, he has no claim to it
\n[jenniearcheo] He always liked the white blinb
\n[gothmog] just same cgi elf copied and pasted haha
\n[jenniearcheo] bling<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Thranduil also says “I came to reclaim something of mine”.
\n[jenniearcheo] thing
\n[Demosthenes] That seems to be the conclusion of that tiny sequence
\n[gothmog] thranduil wants those gems
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Is he is Dale? Who is he speaking to?
\n[perry] someone explained that “thing” was his wife’s jewel, acquired by Thrain. Is that true
\n[Demosthenes] is it the gems?
\n[DuBekar] Or maybe he’s reclaiming Tauriel?
\n[jenniearcheo] He appears to be mounted on the Warmoose when he delivers that line
\n[DuBekar] Lol.
\n[ashwise] I wonder what it is thranduil wants
\n[Demosthenes] DuBekar: also a good guess
\n[gothmog] remember a lot of that gold has come from laketown and the woodland realm through tade and that
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It actually could be Tauriel. Is this after she died?
\n[butterfly] The white gems in AUJ extended edition?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] If she dies.
\n[jenniearcheo] In the “denied” scene with the box that we got before, it looked just like a box of jewels. But apparently there’s a necklace in there.
\n[Demosthenes] smaugth3drag0n: i believe it is pre-battle.
\n[perry] why would Tauriel be in the mountain?
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s hard to see without freezing it.
\n[elentari3018] i’m not sure what Thranduil is looking for
\n[elentari3018] it’s an interesting quote
\n[Demosthenes] perry: i think the line is to Bard
\n[Barry_barrowwight] A supply line for mithril maybe?
\n[Demosthenes] not to Thorin
\n[elentari3018] maybe his pride
\n[gothmog] also from that movie guide i have, ravenhill will act as like a base for azog
\n[elentari3018] claim…what could be his? this is dwarf territory
\n[Demosthenes] gothmog: not really relevant here.
\n[perry] I know demoth – it isn’t to Thorin . He is explaining his presence to someone else.
\n[elentari3018] claim Tauriel again? soimeone said this is prebattle
\n[jenniearcheo] He may be talking to Gandalf, or perhaps to Bard before they ride in together
\n[butterfly] I think maybe Bard
\n[jenniearcheo] Oh, it’s all prebattle
\n[Papagianni] What do you think about Thranduil-Thingol connection?
\n[gothmog] sorry demo forgot again ill stay on topic!
\n[Demosthenes] Or Gandalf? that is another option.
\n[Demosthenes] Papagianni: that’s not really relevant either.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It could be Gandalf. His relationship with the wizard is certainly strained at this point.
\n[jenniearcheo] We see Gandalf ride into Dale in that teaser. It’s not clear when he arrives
\n[mib_dinvcs] wiil tauriel dies ???????
\n[jenniearcheo] Is he only just arriving then? When they’re actually gearing for war against . . . who? The dwarves? Has Dain arrived?
\n[Papagianni] Well I mean about the necklace!
\n* mib_dinvcs was kicked by Demosthenes (off topic)
\n[perry] So, Thranduil is not there at battle for any reason helping Laketown – just to get his jewels?
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, but PJ can’t mention Thingol, so he’s not in the film
\n[Demosthenes] stick to the topic at hand please
\n[jenniearcheo] perry, that’s probably the reason he came to the mountain in the books, too.
\n[DuBekar] There’s that shot of Thranduil attacking Tauriel, so it’s possible he has a score to settle with her.
\n[jenniearcheo] He didn’t know the men of Laketown would need assistance until he got there.
\n[jenniearcheo] I’m sure that comes later
\n[jenniearcheo] Thranduil was acquisitive in the books
\n[perry] Well, Legolas left to find Tauriel and may not have returned.
\n[Puma] and thranduil was not in the book
\n[Bofur] that shot is thruinduil cutting tauriels bow in half, put it on slowmotion and focus on the piece on the left
\n[jenniearcheo] Stop whining about the name<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Next sequence. Gandalf says “this is the last in a master plan”
\n[Demosthenes] we see a sequence of images ending with bilbo
\n[Demosthenes] what’s happening here?
\n[jenniearcheo] Orc armies lined up in ranks
\n[perry] He is watching the bad guys march out
\n[Demosthenes] “a plan long in the making”
\n[butterfly] A whole lot of nasties \ud83d\ude41
\n[thatJustin] Gandalf is talking with Thranduil
\n[Demosthenes] orcs going into caves\/tunnels
\n[smaugth3drag0n] This is very similar to Aragorn before arriving at Helm’s Deep.
\n[jenniearcheo] Two lookouts on the top of the precipice looking down on them
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Bilbo might be looking at Lake Town burning and that army is probably infiltrating the mountain
\n[elentari3018] Love the Bilbo shot
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I have no idea where this is located, Demosthenes.
\n[ashwise] maybe gandalf is alluding to weeding the necromancer out?
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Almost suggests that dwarven reaquisition of the mountain and destruction of smaug was expected
\n[Demosthenes] Where are these tunnels?
\n[gothmog] it seems gandald is refering that azog specifically was always planning to attack thorin and the dwarves
\n[Rantsu] Those tunnels might be near Gundabad
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Maybe mining tunnels that lead somewhere near the mountain
\n[jenniearcheo] I thought Erebor was visible in the background, but I may be mistaken
\n[butterfly] Northern part of the Misty Mountains?
\n[Bofur] demonsthenes at the feet of ravenhill ?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Have we been to this location before in the Rings movie at all?
\n[gothmog] naa you can see erebor behind the tunnels
\n[Demosthenes] Wouldn’t they be emerging from Gundabad?
\n[jenniearcheo] Certainly they’re going in, rather than out of the tunnels
\n[Demosthenes] not going in?
\n[Demosthenes] seems counterintuitive
\n[Rantsu] Well, if it’s just one way to go out of that area
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I would understand it if they were exiting those holes, but to actually be entering seems very confusing.
\n[Demosthenes] at around 0:51 you see a glimpse of now-covered mountain behind those hills. could that be Erebor?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think those are just entrances to somewhere near the mountain like mines
\n[Rantsu] But yeah, most likely they’re near Dale\/Erebor
\n[Demosthenes] the countryside is similare to the Desolation of Smaug
\n[Demosthenes] in style
\n[butterfly] yeah, I can see Erebor at the back
\n[jenniearcheo] Remember, Gandalf is now post-Dol Guldur. He knows the Necromancer was Sauron. He knows there was a hidden army there. He’s telling whoever (presumably Thranduil and Bard) about Sauron’s plan.
\n[gothmog] those tunnels may have been made a some point by orcs so that when the day came to attack erebor they could
\n[Demosthenes] an ambush, then?
\n[gothmog] true jeeniearcheo
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Is that Erebor? It seems to be just a snow-capped mountain.
\n[butterfly] Could be that area they passed through when they were looking for the hidden door
\n[Demosthenes] smaugth3drag0n: it’s hard to tell. it could be.
\n[jenniearcheo] I’m not sure about the mountain, now
\n[Puma] in the pj verse its not erebor.it has the wrong geography
\n[gothmog] in what sense puma
\n[thatJustin] I think that line hints at a major self realization for Gandalf, that it was Sauron’s intention all along to claim Erebor after the dwarves take back. Gandalf set the dwarves out on journey from a place of goodwill, but it was evil’s plan all along. This sets up his line in FOTR “I would want to use the ring for good, but\u2026”
\n[smaugth3drag0n] If you have Google Chrome, you could view that image in 60fps to see if it clearer.
\n[jenniearcheo] True, Puma. I don’t think those tunnels and the surrounding terrain look right for Erebor.
\n[butterfly] I’m on Chrome, how do I do that?
\n[Demosthenes] The question is: where is it?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I fthey come from Gundabad it makes sense
\n[Demosthenes] It’s not Dol Guildur
\n[perry] isn’t there a battle between men and elves before the orcs get to Erebor?
\n[thatJustin] those are the bat caves
\n[Puma] erebor had 5 long ridges….on one was ravenhll…dale was in a valley bewtween 2 ridges
\n[gothmog] it will be a place near erebor i think
\n[jenniearcheo] The question I have is, “How on earth did Sauron know Gandalf was going to prod Thorin on this quest in the first place?”
\n[Rantsu] The line also hints, in a very clever way, to the mission of Istari
\n[smaugth3drag0n] brb…I’ll have the specific url in moments
\n[Rantsu] To bring together and help those who oppose Sauron
\n[Puma] and jrr never tells the full mission of the istari
\n[Rantsu] Gandalf is, after all, the only one who does that in the end.
\n[gothmog] remember sauron captured thrain who was heading to try and reclaim erebor so its obvious his son might try at one point
\n[jenniearcheo] True, and we have just seen the White Council at DG
\n[Demosthenes] the implication of Bilbo in this sequence is that he sees them too
\n[Demosthenes] Bilbo spots something everyone else does not.
\n[jenniearcheo] Rantsu: I think Radagast had some part to play
\n[jenniearcheo] However small
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Watch this in Google Chrome and use the gear to select 1080p60. https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=J2zItoDHK5M
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbo spends a great deal of time noticing things that others do not.
\n[Rantsu] And his realization of Sauron’s plan and negotiation with Thranduil and others give some serious depth for the whole thing.
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: true
\n[Rantsu] And yes, Radagast will definitely do SOMETHING, if nothing else, he will hand over his staff \ud83d\ude09
\n[Puma] why are you trying to make the pj verse logical….it has no logic
\n[Rantsu] And that alone is an act of great wisdom. I like to stick with the idea of Radagast thinking that Gandalf will need it more than he.<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok, so … bats … Tauriel and Legolas. and Legolas’ line
\n[gothmog] sauron is quite clever in the sense by sending azog and bolg hes not even declaring himself to middle earth yet comes close to claiming erebor
\n[smaugth3drag0n] What is Radagast’s motive for handing over his staff? What will he take? A new tree maybe?
\n[thatJustin] Radagast was set up in AUJ to bring back the living from evil death. He’s gonna use the same incantation
\n[Demosthenes] What’s going on here?
\n[butterfly] Woah, HFR is kinda trippy XD
\n[gothmog] ok demo
\n[butterfly] Bats…
\n[gothmog] red fortress is gundabad
\n[Demosthenes] “these bats are bred for one purpose…”
\n[Demosthenes] And where is that weird red fortress
\n[thatJustin] Gundabad?
\n[Demosthenes] Why are there bats there…. but no orcs, seemingly?
\n[Rantsu] Radagast’s motive would be the fact that Gandalf will need it more.
\n[butterfly] I don’t know what it could be
\n[gothmog] bolg will lead armies of gundabad, azog will lead dol guldur army, legolas and tauriel will follow bolg to gundabad but not dare enter
\n[Rantsu] I mean, as Gandalf stated, he is a very great wizard on his own way
\n[butterfly] Gundabad as in where the wargs came from?
\n[thatJustin] Tauriel doenst follow to Gundabad.. no way
\n[gothmog] yes
\n[Rantsu] And his way… does not necessarily require that staff
\n[DuBekar] Bard is the bats. He moonlights as Dracula. *nods sagely*
\n[thatJustin] Wargs are at Dol Goldor
\n[Rantsu] At least as much as Gandalf’s mission does.
\n[thatJustin] Bats at Gundabad
\n[Demosthenes] Isee Tauriel on that ridgeside beside legolas tho
\n[gothmog] why is tauriel with legolas at gundabad then haha?
\n[Demosthenes] view from below — you can see her bow
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Lol dubekar
\n[gothmog] the gundabad army is going to be much larger than dol guldur army as well
\n[Puma] gundabad is a long way off from where they last were
\n[perry] demosthenes, I don’t know who else it would be, but I can’t figure out how she caught up with legolas.
\n[jenniearcheo] I think Legolas and Tauriel are near Erebor and watching the bats fly in. . . . On the other hand . . . Is the weird turned bridge a Dwarf architecture or an orc architecture?
\n[gothmog] yes puma but pj doesnt care about distance remember?
\n[Demosthenes] no-one else uses a bow except bard or … kili?
\n[ashwise] maybe after laketown?
\n[thatJustin] Tauriel has to save Kili, get out of Laketown, share a moment with moonstone\u2026 theres too much for Tauriel to do to be at Gundabad from a scheduling
\n[Puma] that is true
\n[perry] Kili?
\n[Demosthenes] nah it is definitely her
\n[Puma] maybe tauriel can call the moth also
\n[gothmog] book wise gundabad is probably 4 weeks away from erebor movie wise probably a day or two
\n[Demosthenes] they’re scouting … cuz why?
\n[Puma] \ud83d\ude00
\n[butterfly] Yep, it’s definitely Tauriel
\n[thatJustin] will orcs learn english in this film?
\n[gothmog] i hope not
\n[perry] maybe legolas goes back to laketown after he follows Blog – or whatever his name is.
\n[jenniearcheo] I thought Legolas ran off towards Dol Guldur chasing Bolg, but he’s back watching the Laketown refugees in the teaser
\n[Rantsu] Remember there’s a production vlog where we saw Tauriel and Legolas riding together.
\n[jenniearcheo] This is clearly after that
\n[gothmog] i like fact they have their own language
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I think Dr. Augustine is teaching them, Justin.
\n[gothmog] bolg doesnt go to dol guldur he has no need to
\n[ashwise] they’re pray scouting to find out what bolg is up too
\n[gothmog] hes already got his orcs to send his dad a message
\n[gothmog] remember bolg is the king of gundabad
\n[Rantsu] So they might have some sort of journey togehter, whether it is for Gundabad or just to meet Thranduil and his army, I do not know
\n[DuBekar] Considering they basically only know how to say, “The dwarf scum are over there….!” I hope not.
\n[perry] it really can;t be anyone but Tauriel with Legolas. Nothing else makes sense.
\n[jenniearcheo] My point is, he and Tauriel are together, so this is after Laketown burns
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Leggy may start after Bolg, but he may not continue pusuit all the way
\n[thatJustin] this is late in the film<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] So. Next scene. DG and Galadriel and Gandalf (Galadalf hereafter) surrounded by nine figures.
\n[thatJustin] PJ’s cameo
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Awesome to see the nine!
\n[Demosthenes] flash of Saruman on a closeup. It almost looks too choreographed to me.
\n[jenniearcheo] They’re beneath a statue
\n[gothmog] ok galadriel will basically give sauron a good run for his money, sauron also tempts her but she resists
\n[gothmog] elrond will fight the nine as well
\n[Demosthenes] i dunno if i like this scene because of that.
\n[perry] I have no clue about where or when or why. I’m just going to follow.
\n[jenniearcheo] The Nine surround them
\n[Papagianni] I’m sure PJ’s cameo is the fat Nasgul \ud83d\ude1b
\n[jenniearcheo] In the Lego set, Thror’s ring is hidden under the statue
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The one almost behind a statue is the Witch King maybe?
\n[thatJustin] the statue holds a palantir
\n[butterfly] looks interesting!
\n[ashwise] oooh
\n[AmydaughterofBev] That gave me chills…the nine surrounding them as she looks so serene.
\n[DuBekar] Looks like “Snow White,” Middle-earth edition. Will Galadriel’s kiss wake Gandalf? No one knows…
\n[jenniearcheo] Kissing his bye bye
\n[jenniearcheo] him
\n[jenniearcheo] thing
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I hope not. He played a dwarf in the first, a man in the second, hopefully with the same technology used in Capt America, he will be an Elf finally.
\n[butterfly] yes, I see a Palantir!
\n[Puma] so by logic.if the 9 are at dol guldur….minas ithil never fell…and there are still kings in gondor
\n[Demosthenes] Does Galadriel arrive first?
\n[gothmog] i think sarumans voice will play a part and so true puma
\n[Demosthenes] I suspect so.
\n[jenniearcheo] Where is the palantir? The statue appears to be holding something spherical. Is that it?
\n[ashwise] no I think gandalf dose
\n[Demosthenes] yes jennie
\n[AmydaughterofBev] \\Oh! I see it too…the Palantir. I missed it before.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The one behind the statue is very majestic. Maybe it is the Witch king
\n[gothmog] hopefully pj will sort any plot holes<\/p>\n

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[smaugth3drag0n] Do we know what Saruman’s weapon is at Dol Goldur?
\n[gothmog] voice
\n[jenniearcheo] His voice?
\n[thatJustin] he’s running behind Galadriel in one shot
\n[jenniearcheo] That is his main weapon, after all
\n[thatJustin] so he’s very active
\n[Demosthenes] yes, just a flash of white.
\n[gothmog] even sauron in the books fears sarumans voice
\n[Puma] in the pj verse.saruman will make a deal with sauron
\n[butterfly] Wonder if they’ll do that scream again? 0_0
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Yes…voice…I agree, jenniearcheo.
\n[gothmog] the wilhelm scream
\n[jenniearcheo] Certainly not right in front of everybody
\n[mib_2ffahk] I have to say, Christopher Lee stole the trailer with one line
\n[butterfly] no, not the wilhelm scream
\n[gothmog] i dont think he will puma
\n[butterfly] The Nazgul one
\n[thatJustin] Cumberbatch and Lee in dialog? My ears will cry tears of pleasure
\n[Demosthenes] Yes, a lot of ppl are thinking “Leave Sauron to me” is the begiining of the end for Saruman the Wise.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The Howard Dean scream, butterfly.
\n[Demosthenes] which is an interesting setup for LOTR
\n[Puma] my point Demz!!!!
\n[gothmog] i think sauron will pretend to be defeated by saruman
\n[Demosthenes] and withdraw
\n[Rantsu] Or it might be that Saruman can somehow force Sauron to leave Dol Guldur
\n[butterfly] Yes, we’ll hear Benedict again! ^^
\n[Rantsu] And after that, he discovers the palantir
\n[DuBekar] No. The Wilhem Scream ruined Thrain’s death in the Dos: EE for me. *muttermutter*
\n[gothmog] saruman was pretty much gone anyway
\n[perry] I thought “leave Sauron to me” was ironic. Is this before Sauron turns to the dark side?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Demosthenes, it makes sense. It could be haughty for Saruman to underestimate the power of Sauron.
\n[jenniearcheo] It could be the beginning of the end or, judging by his “No, don’t worry about this knife” scene in Film 1, it may be a dirty deal between him and Sauron
\n[thatJustin] remember Gandalf seems surprised about palantir in FOTR
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Why would even Saruman be corrupted at this point? Maybe after the fight he finds the Palantir and hides it from the others
\n[Rantsu] Hiding it from the others or saying that he will just examine it.
\n[Demosthenes] Maybe that orb is supposed to be the orthanc stone as well
\n[gothmog] saruman wanted the ring at this point
\n[mib_2ffahk] I simply can’t wait to watch all six films in chronological order
\n[Demosthenes] it’s possible
\n[mib_2ffahk] It makes sense for him to confront Sauron alone considering the events of the future
\n[jenniearcheo] Or does Sauron nab it on his way out? After all, Orthanc is supposed to have one already.
\n[gothmog] he only attacks sauron at dg well not attack but goes with the white council to dg is so sauron doesnt find ring before him
\n[AmydaughterofBev] I thought that too, jenniearchio. he was a bit too dismissive of the sword in AUJ.
\n[Rantsu] It can also be, that even though the Council indeed gives Sauron a hard time, Sauron still manages to do something for Saruman
\n[smaugth3drag0n] TheOneRing’s own Quickbeam had that idea months ago that Saruman would actually find a Palantir and hide it from others.
\n[Demosthenes] Maybe in the confrontation he has a realisation and throws over.
\n[Rantsu] Like giving him a very, very wicked vision
\n[Rantsu] Or whatever
\n[gothmog] also in the books gandalf says by the devices of saruman they got rid of sauron from dol guldur
\n[jenniearcheo] hmm
\n[gothmog] so in the films i think saruman will use his voice against sauron
\n[jenniearcheo] Or seem to
\n[gothmog] sauron will only pretend to be defeated
\n[Rantsu] Sounds reasonable
\n[AmydaughterofBev] This is great stuff, everyone!
\n[Demosthenes] i suspect gothmog is right: sauron will only pretend to be defeated
\n[Puma] remember.the voice and singing….are a big part of “magic” in jrr
\n[jenniearcheo] “Leave Sauron to me” may be Saruman preventing anyone actually doing Sauron harm
\n[mib_lskh1g] is sauroman and souron budyi
\n[butterfly] yeah, I think he will pretend
\n[gothmog] their will be no deal it makes no sense to have a deal
\n[DuBekar] Sauron isn’t going to stick around when he knows he can’t win. He’ll just relocate until it’s safe for him to start building up his strength again.
\n[mib_lskh1g] up in the lotr why would they
\n[Rantsu] Sir Lee said that he (Saruman) “will feel sympathy towards Gandalf and Galadriel and others”
\n[Rantsu] Yes, he might give false information
\n[mib_lskh1g] if they already fought to death?
\n[Rantsu] But he has stated many times that this is kinda the heroic Saruman
\n[gothmog] no point sauron fighting the white council he has no need to
\n[jenniearcheo] Hard to say
\n[Rantsu] Still good, not yet corrupted
\n[Rantsu] Proud, but not evil
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Agreed
\n[gothmog] saruman was never evil imo more very neutral
\n[Rantsu] So I’m sticking with the version that facing Sauron and getting palantir stars his real fall into evil.
\n[Rantsu] It begins in Dol Guldur, not before
\n[butterfly] yep
\n[Demosthenes] I agree. So we see both the wisdom and the end of wisdom.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] also agree
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Agree.
\n[Rantsu] Just theory of course. But again, Sir Christopher Lee said that Saruman is still good
\n[Rantsu] ON THE OTHER HAND
\n[Demosthenes] Dramatically it makes sense.
\n[Rantsu] Lee is THE VOICE OF SARUMAn
\n[Rantsu] So… \ud83d\ude09
\n[AmydaughterofBev] His interest in power is peaked, for sure.
\n[gothmog] yes saruman will be good in the film
\n[jenniearcheo] heh
\n[Rantsu] So yes, beware of his voice.
\n[jenniearcheo] Christopher Lee may be fooling us with his voice? lol<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok. next scene. Dwalin to Thorin: “Bilbo is right: you cannot see what you have become.” Strong stuff from Dwalin of all people who you’d expect to stick with Thorin to the very end.
\n[gothmog] it was facing sauron in the palantir that is when he realized that sauron was too powerful
\n[butterfly] Dwalin losing his best friend \ud83d\ude41
\n[jenniearcheo] Also, Sauron Eye Flash
\n[smaugth3drag0n] That has to hurt Thorin.
\n[Demosthenes] And Thorin’s reply: Everything i did i did for them.
\n[Rantsu] I really like how they seem use Dwalin there
\n[Demosthenes] It’s all coming apart?
\n[butterfly] *sniff*
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbo using ropes to climb down and over the broken statue bits
\n[gothmog] dwalin realises thorin is pretty lost it and only cares about the gold
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Dwalin’s voice cracking slightly here…made me choke up.
\n[perry] Them? Kili and Fili or all the dwarves?
\n[Demosthenes] Conflict within the company. BIG change from the unexpected party at Bag end.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] He is very conflicted.
\n[DuBekar] Thorin would respect what Dwalin had to say. Perhaps more than any of the others, except Balin.
\n[butterfly] Uncle\/nephew moment
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Demosthenes, if even Dwalin is questioning Thorin, it’s all coming down at this point.
\n[Demosthenes] what might make Dwalin revolt?
\n[jenniearcheo] Et tu, Dwalin?
\n[Rantsu] Dwalin is, after all, his trusted follower and very loyal.
\n[perry] But Dwalin doesn;thave gold sickness
\n[jenniearcheo] I wonder what Balin’s opinion is right now
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I could understand Balin saying that, but to come from Dwalin, Thorin must feel very isolated and alone at that moment.
\n[butterfly] Graham said once that Dwalin would never question his leader, so…
\n[thatJustin] remember that leaked photo of Balin and Dwalin chatting over the table
\n[gothmog] balin in dos says thorin is not himself
\n[elentari3018] i really liked that Dwalin quote–i think everyone realizes THorin is getting mad with only concern for himself
\n[Demosthenes] smaugth3drag0n: yes. that’s what makes this really interesting.
\n[jenniearcheo] How far has Balin come from his, “This is a king I can follow” moment at Azanulbizar
\n[DuBekar] Would Thorin threatening to throw Bilbo off a wall cause that reaction from Dwalin?
\n[elentari3018] i wonder if there is some Balin and Thorin tension as well
\n[butterfly] Yeah, I think it’s after Bilbo leaves
\n[jenniearcheo] I wanna see Thorin shake Bilbo like a rabbit, but I bet PJ doesn’t shoot it.
\n[Demosthenes] DuBekar: you think it could be post “miserable rat”?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] No doubt Balin and Thorin have shared a tense moment at this point.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Great point jenniearcheo. The moment Thorin turns around in AUJ and they are all staring at him as a leader. Now in this trailer, they are staring at him because he has fallen. That is the definition of a tragedy.
\n[butterfly] He’ll probably threaten Bilbo anyway \ud83d\ude41
\n[Demosthenes] we do see Bilbo climbing down in the accompanying scenes
\n[Rantsu] But I guess there might be some physical confrontation between Thorin and Bilbo
\n[Demosthenes] and leaving Erebor
\n[butterfly] Forehead touch, though! [3
\n[jenniearcheo] in the books, of course, he makes a big point of coming back
\n[ashwise] I think that’s his getaway scene
\n[thatJustin] https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/TheOneRingnet\/photos\/a.396801514820.175074.6425769820\/10152574446559821\/?type=1&permPage=1
\n[DuBekar] I think the scene at the wall is really the most extreme that Thorin gets. That’s basically what shakes him, I think.
\n[jenniearcheo] Is the forehead touch a nod to Maori custom?
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: maybe? dunno.
\n[Demosthenes] it could be
\n[butterfly] I heard it was a sign of affection amongst Dwarves
\n[butterfly] like a hug
\n[Demosthenes] note: thorin is among his gold when he replies
\n[AmydaughterofBev] jenniearcheo-you are brilliant! It is!
\n[gothmog] cool \ud83d\ude42
\n[jenniearcheo] Is that why Balin and Dwalin head butt?
\n[DuBekar] When he realizes he almost killed Bilbo over a jewel, and Dwalin’s words remind him of his “humanity,” so to speak.
\n[gothmog] yes probably
\n[Demosthenes] he’s well over the edge. he looks haunted tho.
\n[Demosthenes] kinda “what have i done?” maybe?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] jenniearcheo and gothmog – that puts new meaning on the term “Love hurts.”
\n[butterfly] But Thorin is gentler with Kili because he knows he hurt him
\n[FatherGregorian] I really hope we see the good part of Saruman square off with Sauron…
\n[DuBekar] Maybe he lapses in and out of madness?
\n[jenniearcheo] lol
\n[Barry_barrowwight] Sick, lost, overwhelmed with all of it
\n[jenniearcheo] Well, it’s make-up forehead
\n[Demosthenes] He is the well-intentioned extremist.
\n[butterfly] I will cry at that bit, btw
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Most extremists are. Well said!
\n[gothmog] gold is a dwarves weakness sadly
\n[DuBekar] Like certain things aggravate Thorin’s madness and make him go over the edge and fly into a rage?
\n[jenniearcheo] What point marks the end of Thorin’s gold sickness? The shaking of Bilbo? This argument with Kili? Is he “healed” after that?
\n[gothmog] although the dwarven rings didnt corrupt them or turn them to wraiths it made them covet gold a lot
\n[jenniearcheo] Except he’s never had one
\n[ashwise] interesting
\n[jenniearcheo] Even his father didn’t have it<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok. Next scene: Thranduil seizing the carp. “You began this, you will forgive me if i finish it.” Plus lots of elf army shots.
\n[Demosthenes] and Thorin looking a bit shaky?
\n[thatJustin] in a battle tent no less
\n[perry] Qhat carp?
\n[butterfly] The odds are against them \ud83d\ude41
\n[DuBekar] Is he talking to Gandalf or Thorin?
\n[butterfly] Thorin in a crown!
\n[jenniearcheo] So . . . arrows up at the statue?
\n[FatherGregorian] I wander if Thranduil dies…it would make sense wouldn’t it?
\n[Demosthenes] perry: latin joke: carpe diem “seize the day”
\n[jenniearcheo] Carpe diem, sieze the carp?
\n[Rantsu] It would not make sense
\n[DuBekar] No. Because then Legolas would be king.
\n[Rantsu] Since Legolas is his son… and heir
\n[Rantsu] Indeed
\n[Papagianni] FatherGregorian not really
\n[perry] Thranduil is talking to almost anyone but Thorin at that point. I think it is Gandalf who “negan this”
\n[thatJustin] is it at Dol Goldur or at Dale?
\n[Demosthenes] Gandy seems as though he has regrets?
\n[perry] began
\n[Demosthenes] perry: agreed.
\n[DuBekar] Gandalf _did_ technically start this.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] What kind of guts do you have to have to go up to a Wizard and say what Thranduil said to Gandalf?
\n[jenniearcheo] Interesting, I don’t see any particular barrier, hastily built or otherwise, in front of Erebor.
\n[gothmog] i think gandalf knows that their all in danger and not necessarily from orcs
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Gandalf didn\u00b4t take into account Thranduil\u00b4s greed
\n[jenniearcheo] Big giant elf nads
\n[AmydaughterofBev] The guts of an Elf are pretty large
\n[Demosthenes] Thranduil’s motivation (apart from gems) seems to be wanting to avoid larger conflict. Isolationism and all that.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Ha! Great minds, Jennie.
\n[Demosthenes] is what we are seeing a continuance of that?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] There appears to be genuine hatred of Gandalf from Thranduil. This is more than just, “You made a mistake. I’ll correct it.”
\n[thatJustin] Every elf chooses isolation
\n[Demosthenes] Or has he changed his mind here?
\n[FatherGregorian] Gandalf gets so much crap from people, when he pretty much orchestrates EVERYTHING
\n[thatJustin] Elrond, Galadriel, Thranduil all isolationists.
\n[perry] I think it is Gandalf. Bard would not warrant that much emotion, hate, disdain
\n[smaugth3drag0n] LOL – jenniearcheo
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Good point, Justin.
\n[jenniearcheo] Okay, there’s a shot in this sequence of three ballistas being shot. By whom?
\n[jenniearcheo] Are those dwarves or orcs manning them?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Dwarven ballistas
\n[FatherGregorian] Oops sorry. No more swearing from me
\n[thatJustin] orcs
\n[Papagianni] Dwarves
\n[Demosthenes] yes they seem to be dwarven ballistae
\n[jenniearcheo] There appears to be angular architecture, so possible dwarven motifs. Hard to tell. Those manning it seem to be covered in plate armor
\n[DuBekar] I don’t see what use the dwarves would have for ballistas. Aren’t they for besieging a fortress?
\n[Demosthenes] not orcs. interesting. so we see an elf-dwarf conflict. perhaps that is what T is apologetic about?
\n[Feanor] Elves’ faces look too CGI though in that one scene.
\n[FatherGregorian] Are the trolls theit own army?
\n[jenniearcheo] Who are they shooting at?
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: elf-dwarf war.
\n[jenniearcheo] That’s what I mean, DuBekar
\n[jenniearcheo] Doesn’t make much sense
\n[Demosthenes] Gandy’s going “ummmmm”
\n[DuBekar] I wonder how long the Elves attack Erebor before Dain shows up.
\n[jenniearcheo] The Dwarves don’t have anything to attack that would require such a device
\n[Feanor] I don’t believe we will see a Elf-dwarf war, I think Gandaf will stop it in the last moment.
\n[jenniearcheo] Unless . . . they didn’t know Smaug was yet dead?
\n[FatherGregorian] Can we talk about Saruman?
\n[Demosthenes] FatherGregorian: no
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It looks like their armor has a mohawk on the top of the helmet.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Do you know what a balista can do to a formation like the elven one? Pierce several people at once
\n[Demosthenes] it’s a very roman device.
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, I see the ridge crest, smaugth3drag0n
\n[FatherGregorian] I don’t like you Demosthenes
\n[Demosthenes] join the club \ud83d\ude42
\n[DuBekar] There’s a shot of them firing a volley of arrows at the fortress, so I’m guessing their argument (however briefly) results on violence.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It is highly unlikely, but Demosthenes, could this be from Dain Ironfoot?
\n[gothmog] we dont like you fathergregorian \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok, next sequence and Bilbo’s line when faced with death … what can anyone do?
\n[Demosthenes] bit of a montage here
\n[FatherGregorian] I didn’t expect some of you guys to be so rude
\n[perry] Is there where he justifies giving over the Arkenstone?
\n[butterfly] He has a good point \ud83d\ude41
\n[jenniearcheo] I still don’t get why the elves are all shooting at the statue to the right of Erebor. Or why the statue is still standing.
\n[jenniearcheo] FatherGregorian: It’s just we’re trying to organize the discussion
\n[Rantsu] Speaking of Elves vs dwarves, I wonder how seriously we should take what Connolly said about “killing elves” \ud83d\ude00
\n[Demosthenes] FatherGregorian: sorry FatherGregorian. I’m having to strictly control this otherwise it goes into a mess. So, no we cannot talk about Saruman right now.
\n[butterfly] I like you, Demo \ud83d\ude42
\n[jenniearcheo] With this many people, it’s chaos
\n[DuBekar] Maybe the dwarves destroy it to block the entrance to the hidden door?
\n[Rantsu] I mean, there is a possibility, even though not a high
\n[butterfly] I see Fili and Thorin looking over the landscape
\n[thatJustin] that totally Tauriel riding away on white horse
\n[FatherGregorian] Understood. Sorry.
\n[jenniearcheo] Surely that door is long shut again
\n[Demosthenes] BTW, when Bilbo says that line. he seems to be in Dale
\n[Demosthenes] and it seems to be n fire?
\n[Demosthenes] is that right?
\n[perry] So, giving the Arkenstone
\n[jenniearcheo] Someone is riding away on a white horse, to be sure
\n[butterfly] Yep, there’s fire
\n[perry] I think that’s bard
\n[smaugth3drag0n] That is the single best thing in this trailer. Bilbo’s line. You can just feel the passion and danger. I love it.
\n[DuBekar] Or they’re destroying it to block the main gate.
\n[Demosthenes] Why is there fire?
\n[perry] on the white horse
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Bard goes away when Thorin refuses to help him
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Who is overlooking Dale as Bilbo is speaking?
\n[perry] white horse
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I haven’t seen the white horse yet. Where is it?
\n[Demosthenes] I see the horse. it’s in the parapet shot
\n[FatherGregorian] Tauriel will die. I’m sure of it.
\n[Demosthenes] between the merlon.
\n[butterfly] With Fili and Thorin
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Wow. I did not see that before. Cool.
\n[jenniearcheo] Shot over Fili and Thorin’s shoulders, looking out at Dale in the distance. Horse riding off
\n[Feanor] Someone is riding a horse through the Lake-Town-refugees camp
\n[Rantsu] Legolas?
\n[thatJustin] I think Fili and Kili reunite with the Erebor dwarves and Tauriel then leaves, while the brothers watch her ride away
\n[Demosthenes] Did Tauriel just deliver Kili to Erebor?
\n[gothmog] probably gandalf?
\n[Rantsu] He took the white horse at the end of DoS
\n[perry] we see Bard on a white horse when Thranduil is on his elk
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Ah! Yes…I see it now.
\n[Papagianni] I’ts Tauriel and Legolas Or Gandalf. who else has a white horse?
\n[Rantsu] And will definitely arrive to the camp at some point
\n[Rantsu] (remember the picture of Bard and Leggy)
\n[Demosthenes] it’s an elf anyhow
\n[AmydaughterofBev] You all have elven eyes!
\n[Puma] long HoF
\n[smaugth3drag0n] lol
\n[Rantsu] So yeah, my vote goes for Legolas
\n[butterfly] Demo, Dean O’Gorman talked about a scene where they make their way to Erebor from Lake town
\n[gothmog] puma hates movieverse :p
\n[AzogTheDefiler] No that\u00b4s Bard leaving
\n[butterfly] The four Dwarves get there on their own
\n[Demosthenes] I reckon it’s an elf \ud83d\ude42
\n[jenniearcheo] There are such parleys or attempts at parleys, in the book
\n[FatherGregorian] Gandalf doesn’t get a white horse until The Two Towers
\n[Puma] shadowfax was grey
\n[gothmog] theirs more than one white horse haha
\n[perry] There is a clean shot of Bard on a white horse.
\n[jenniearcheo] THE white horse, anyway. I’m sure there are more than one
\n[Puma] not white
\n[Demosthenes] it’s a white\/grey horse
\n[Demosthenes] maybe grey
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Anyway…It’s a horse.
\n[FatherGregorian] You’re a white\/grey horse \ud83d\ude09
\n[Feanor] Honestly, I don’t think that who’s on the horse is that important \ud83d\ude00
\n[Puma] and yes.there are many white horses
\n[Papagianni] FatherGregorian Gandalf rides a white horse in the first trailer
\n[elentari3018] thanks for the chat– gotta run
\n[elentari3018] namarie!
\n[gothmog] rohan had a lot of horses robbed from them haha
\n[Demosthenes] So, possibly a parley? Possibly Tauriel.
\n[butterfly] yeah, maybe
\n[Feanor] noro lim asfaloth
\n[Demosthenes] Another flash of “Gundabad” too.
\n[Puma] yes.in the pj verse that line is said by a horse thief
\n[FatherGregorian] You guys are crazy. Gandalfs only white horse is Shadowfax
\n[gothmog] gundabad looks a lot like minas morgul in the films
\n[Demosthenes] Lake-town camp (plus that white horse)
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Are we sure that is Gundabad???
\n[gothmog] yes i am anyway :p
\n[Papagianni] FatherGregorian you don’t really see my point
\n[Demosthenes] it’s not anywhere we’ve seen before.
\n[gothmog] well im sure of it haha
\n[AzogTheDefiler] That\u00b4s not Gundabad, it\u00b4s so far away
\n[gothmog] so<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Next scene: “I will not hide while others fight our battles.”
\n[FatherGregorian] Yes I do Papagianni. I just don’t care.
\n[Demosthenes] Angry little man. Umm .. dwarf.
\n[butterfly] Aidan’s bringing it!
\n[perry] This is Tauriel’s influence on Fili.
\n[Rantsu] Loving the emotional weight it gives to the whole Thorin-Fili-Kili thing.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] That troll character is quite intriguing
\n[Feanor] I’m wondering what will happen to Radagast. He’s a Maia so he probably don’t die. Maia with bird poo on his head, but still a Maia.
\n[thatJustin] That elf has poisoned his mind
\n[Demosthenes] perry: i think it’s Kili growing up. Independence.
\n[Half-Elf] So is that Orcrist that Legolas is using when he is fighting the orcs in Laketown?
\n[butterfly] I love Kili’s outburst
\n[gothmog] yes half-elf
\n[Demosthenes] part of that is rebellion. Or at least not toeing the party line.
\n[jenniearcheo] Parallel arguments between these two and Tauriel\/Thranduil.
\n[butterfly] I think being left behind did a number on him \ud83d\ude41
\n[Barry_barrowwight] He’s growing up, coming into his own.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Quick nod to the trolls coming over the hill in sync with percussion…fantastic.
\n[perry] Yes, Demo, but he is learning independence from T, I think.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I agree Dem. He no longer belongs in the shadow of Thorin Oakenshield.
\n[FatherGregorian] Kili’s voice almost cracked
\n[butterfly] I love watching this bit in reaction videos, too
\n[Demosthenes] It also kinda mirrors Fili in DOS. Although Kili goes a step further.
\n[Demosthenes] Active rebellion not a passive act.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Maybe the battle started outside and Thorin decides to cower inside the mountain and Kili clearly agrees
\n[butterfly] He looks really angry and upset \ud83d\ude41
\n[Puma] and kili is not the heir of thorin
\n[Puma] dwarves only go by paternal line
\n[smaugth3drag0n] He must be talking about the elves outside with their arrows doing battle when they are hiding inside Erebor…possibly
\n[Puma] so another lapse in the pjverse
\n[Demosthenes] Yes, i am not sure whether that makes that scene more dramatic or less.
\n[FatherGregorian] Thorin is bringing them all to ruin. And they were the only ones who trusted him \ud83d\ude41
\n[gothmog] so who is the heir puma
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Good point FG.
\n[perry] Men and Elves turn their attention from Dwarves to Orcs, and Thorin refuses to join.
\n[butterfly] Fili and Kili ARE his heirs
\n[Demosthenes] Fili is. But Fili has already gone against Thorin.
\n[Puma] dain was the heir if thorin had no children
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Perry-I agree. Very plausible.
\n[butterfly] No, only if Fili and Kili die
\n[butterfly] Well…
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Wait…what? Seriously, Puma? I never knew that,
\n[Puma] yes..seriously
\n[jenniearcheo] Yeah
\n[Feanor] The moment when Thorin and his company get into battle after hiding in Erebor, in their golden armor, is my favorite moment in the book.
\n[Demosthenes] I think that this comes after bilbo has left them.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] huh.
\n[butterfly] Richard Armitage said Fili and Kili are in line to the throne
\n[butterfly] Fili especially
\n[Puma] but they are not but in the pjverse
\n[gothmog] in the films they are
\n[thatJustin] is that line early in the film or later?
\n[Demosthenes] Not so interested in canon today, Puma
\n[perry] So did Thorin – You will be King some day – to Fili
\n[FatherGregorian] I bet Beorn rips off Azog’s head..
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s not clear that we’ll get the Descendant of Rats confrontation in the film.
\n[jenniearcheo] It may be that Bilbo doesn’t come back in the film
\n[jenniearcheo] We shall see
\n[Rantsu] Remember, in AUJ Thorin said that Dalin rejected the quest.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The movies don\u00b4t setup the antagonism between Thorin and Azog just to have Beorn kill him…
\n[gothmog] dain** rantsu
\n[Rantsu] *Dain
\n[jenniearcheo] Dain said he wouldn’t come. Either he gets a message (feathered or not) or he changes his mind
\n[Rantsu] Indeed.<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok, so … we get Bard with the black arrow. and the master seemingly fleeing?
\n[perry] I agree Azog. Thorin has to kill Azog.
\n[butterfly] I reckon Kili’s outburst is part of a bigger speech
\n[gothmog] thorin will kill azog
\n[Rantsu] But yes, in a symbolic way, he kinda gave up his claim.
\n[Demosthenes] We’re back to Lake-town
\n[gothmog] pj has confirmed a fight between beorn and bolg
\n[jenniearcheo] Clearly laketown, not Dale
\n[FatherGregorian] I feel like Azog will kill Thorin, to complete the circle
\n[jenniearcheo] I don’t think The Master makes it to Dale, frankly
\n[gothmog] i would prefer if azog killed thorin
\n[jenniearcheo] He certainly doesn’t in the book
\n[Demosthenes] One of the very few Lake-town scenes in the trailer.
\n[gothmog] i want thorin to have no redemption
\n[jenniearcheo] Will The Master make it out of town at all, is the question
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: i think you’re right.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The master will probably die in Lake Town there were pictures of Alfrid with the refugeesin Dale
\n[perry] No. Disagree. Azog cannot Kill Thorin – though it sure looks like he is killing him. Maybe Bolg.
\n[Feanor] I disagree that Thorin has to kill Azog, I think it will be the opposite. But Azog does (probably) kill Tauriel so he has his share.
\n[Papagianni] jenniearcheo i agree but Alfrid survives
\n[Demosthenes] And yes, we have seen Alfrid with bard later.
\n[jenniearcheo] In the book, there’s a political kebbielebbie on the shore afterwards. I wonder if we’ll see that
\n[Feanor] Legolas is killing Bolg, that I’m sure.
\n[Demosthenes] only if the master survives
\n[AzogTheDefiler] They might kill each other. Thorin kills Azog and is left mortally wounded
\n[Demosthenes] hard to know what will happen to him
\n[FatherGregorian] That would really stink if Thorin kills Azog. That’d be really lame. It should be the other way around.
\n[perry] To have Thorin killed in battle defending, is one thing, to have Azog kill him goes against the grain. Itmakes Azog the victor. But mayber you;re right – they kill each other.
\n[gothmog] beorn will kill bolg i think
\n[gothmog] hopefully we will see movie verse legolas fail for once
\n[PhillipF_Greece] heres a fact about Dain,he rules the lonely mountain after Thori’s death and somewhere before the lord of the rings period Sauron visits him and tries to make him go and fight alongside mordor in the war of the ring as an exchange of the Thrains magic ring the last of the seven magic rings of the dwarves(which if u have seen DOS extended u would see that)
\n[jenniearcheo] I’ll be sorry to not see The Master’s political downfall if he merely gets a physical one
\n[Demosthenes] If the writers knock off the master in lake-town then … bard is the automatic and immediate choice.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] True Demosthenes
\n[gothmog] yes sauron sends i believe its the mouth of sauron puma? to erebor to tempt them
\n[Rantsu] There might be some public confrontation between Bard and The Master.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Looking forward to Beorn’s part to play in the battle.
\n[Demosthenes] Alfrid does not seem to have the requisite persona to work against bard. he’s just a schemer.
\n[jenniearcheo] Alfrid is a toadie
\n[AzogTheDefiler] In the preview video we see Bard commanding the man of Lake Town
\n[Demosthenes] yah
\n[TheArkenstone] I wanna see the master of laketown follow in Denethor’s footsteps. (running off a precipice engulfed in flames)
\n[jenniearcheo] Without a Master, he’s nothing
\n[jenniearcheo] I want to see the remaining Laketown folk deliberately choose Bard over The Master.
\n[FatherGregorian] I agree with TheArkenstone
\n[smaugth3drag0n] agreed
\n[jenniearcheo] If he perishes in flames, we lose that.
\n[jenniearcheo] And are left with the idea that if he had survived, Bard might not have been in charge.
\n[Rantsu] In DOS, Bard publicly stands against Thorin’s quest
\n[thatJustin] Alfrid has a significant role in this film from what I’ve hears
\n[Rantsu] People of Lake-Town did see that.<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Next sequence: Kili and Tauriel moment. The whole Legolas part of this “triangle” seems to have been dispensed with?
\n[Rantsu] And now, they will see that Bard was kinda right.
\n[perry] If Bard kills the Dragon, he’s a shoe in to succeed Master
\n[TheArkenstone] Does anyone know for sure where it is that Legolas and Tauriel go? Like the place with all the bats flying out of it? Is that supposed to be Mt. Gundabad or Angmar or something?
\n[gothmog] wrong topic mate
\n[Demosthenes] Am i wrong? Everything with Legolas says “mates”.
\n[butterfly] Pretty sure Kili is giving her the runestone
\n[jenniearcheo] I suppose this is Kili giving Tauriel the stone before . . . before he does to Erebor?
\n[mib_2ffahk] I assumed the love triangle was kind of dispensed at the end of “TDOS”
\n[Demosthenes] butterfly: i think so too.
\n[gothmog] tauriel will head to the valinor i think
\n[jenniearcheo] Legolas is still off chasing Bolg at this point?
\n[butterfly] probably saying goodbye
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: could be
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I agree butterfly. I am wondering how that stone will make its way back to his mother.
\n[TheArkenstone] I agree with gothmog
\n[jenniearcheo] Perhaps Kili & co. leave and then Legolas returns
\n[butterfly] why else would he give it to her?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] This is after Smaug dies in the lake shore
\n[perry] I think Kili and Tauriel are saying good-bye in Laketown. Kili has to go to the mountain.
\n[jenniearcheo] Come back to me. Isn’t that what it says?
\n[Demosthenes] tauriel is sending kili off to erebor and then she has to go … i dunno find legolas?
\n[perry] But he must know he is in danger because he gives her the stone.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I would much prefer that ending, gothmog. Tauriel brings the stone back to Kili’s mother and then goes Into the West.
\n[gothmog] yes she will head to mount gundabad
\n[butterfly] it’s actually kinda romantic to give her the stone before he leaves \ud83d\ude42
\n[smaugth3drag0n] That actually says alot about Kili if he gives her the stone. That says that he doesn’t think he will surivive.
\n[butterfly] she knows how much it means to him
\n[perry] He would have to know he is going to face danger. So there must already be some conflict.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] at that moment
\n[jenniearcheo] Or that he hopes to see her again
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It is more than that. I think at that moment, he knows he will die.
\n[FatherGregorian] I thought that’s what the stone meant??
\n[TheArkenstone] For anyone that’s played Lego The Hobbit, they have the grey havens as a visitable location. It makes it seem that something’s going to happen there. I think Gothmog is right
\n[butterfly] He doesn’t expect to live \ud83d\ude41
\n[butterfly] or maybe he knows he has to be with his family
\n[jenniearcheo] The stone is engraved, “Come back to me” or sommat. If he gives it to her, presumably he’s telling her he hopes that they can meet up again after all this.<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] I’m going to skip the bats and go straight to Tauriel vs Thranduil.
\n[gothmog] well remember the battle of the five armies is like 5 days after lake town is destroyed, so more than enough time in from film logic for legolas and tauriel to head to gundabad and back
\n[Demosthenes] What’s happened here?
\n[gothmog] and yes demo
\n[jenniearcheo] Really, TheArkenstone? Interesting.
\n[perry] jennie I like that
\n[FatherGregorian] What if Thranduil kills her???
\n[gothmog] thranduil is annoyed that she left mirkwood for a mere dwarve
\n[smaugth3drag0n] This is why I love the chat. Using the vastly different knowledge we all have about Tolkien and Jackson’s work, we can find answers or close answers. I love it.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Oh my! That blew my mind. I must have watched it 100 times.
\n[Puma] bo5a is way more than 5 days after
\n[Demosthenes] FatherGregorian: Calisuri speculated that. Big call. very dark.
\n[butterfly] I read that he breaks her bow in two
\n[jenniearcheo] You’re skipping Thranduil hitting Tauriel?!
\n[Demosthenes] butterfly: he definitely breaks her bow
\n[TheArkenstone] Yeah jenniearcheo the only places in the game that we haven’t seen in the movies yet are lothlorien and the grey havens
\n[jenniearcheo] Oh,
\n[jenniearcheo] Sorry
\n[perry] he breaks her bow. But is she getting ready to shoot at him?
\n[DuBekar] Breaking her bow: heavily symbolic, methinks.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] He wont kill her it makes no sense, she fights Bolg in the end
\n[Feanor] I have nothing against Tauriel, she’s great addition to the film, but I would rather have Legolas and Gimli be the first elf-dwarf friends after their race’s feud in history.
\n[Demosthenes] *is* she protecting someone else?
\n[Demosthenes] Or is he angry at her?
\n[butterfly] she keeps defying his orders…
\n[Papagianni] Tauriel is not aiming at him,they’re probably fighting the orcs that attack Dale,she basicaly aims at an ork
\n[jenniearcheo] Is this after the stone scene? Has Kili left yet?
\n[Puma] does not celebrimbor\/narvi count as friends
\n[perry] Then why would Thranduil attack her?
\n[TheArkenstone] It almost looks like a spurt of blood on Thranduils face after he takes a swing at Tauriel though. That would be a really sad ending
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Thranduil is angry at her and breaks her bow. He is the king. She is a “lowly silven elf.”
\n[Papagianni] Seriously he’s not going to kill her,that’s stupid
\n[perry] I don;t see Thranduil killinh Tauriel. If she dies, it will be a heroic death.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Heavy symbolism in the destruction of her bow.
\n[DuBekar] Maybe that bow was a symbol of her station.
\n[Demosthenes] i agree with the sympbolism
\n[Demosthenes] not my captain anymore
\n[FatherGregorian] Guys, Tauriel has to die. Its inevitable
\n[Demosthenes] “you’re fired”
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Captain of the guard.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Maybe Tauriel is sticking up for the dwarves. I agree perry. That would be out of place if she died by Thranduil’s hands.
\n[jenniearcheo] Okay, in the scene where Thranduil is striking her, it’s clearly snowing in Dale. And he’s scuffed. His face is clearly scuffed.
\n[jenniearcheo] So this is _during_ the battle, I’m thinking
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Great point DuBekar. Insightful.
\n[TheArkenstone] No I bet Tauriel’s gonna live. In fact, I think Bold will kill Kili and she will slay Bolg in her fury
\n[Demosthenes] It might be his “this is my ruined horror” face
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Yes…excellent point.
\n[TheArkenstone] Bolg not bold
\n[Papagianni] did you heard about the rumor that Tauriel fights the orcs fist and Thranduil gets annoyed? I think that’s it!!
\n[Rantsu] Tauriel might oppose Thranduil’s plan to “take what is his”.
\n[perry] He may not be redy to join the fight yet
\n[perry] ready
\n[jenniearcheo] Oh, the burned up face peeking through the fa\u00e7ade?
\n[Rantsu] And Thranduil gets mad at Tauriel acting like that.
\n[Demosthenes] or it might just be that she broke his policy of isolationism
\n[jenniearcheo] For fighting orcs?!
\n[Rantsu] That too, yes.
\n[Demosthenes] and he’s furious at that
\n[gundabad] god ive been logged out again and wont let me re sign in as gothmog
\n[Demosthenes] because it threatens his land now
\n[perry] Yes, she defies him left and right, but who is at her feet?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Well she is the reason Legolas is out there too
\n[gundabad] her own feet
\n[jenniearcheo] He preferred to stand aside and let the orcs kill . . . whom? The Dwarves, or the dwarves _and_ men?
\n[FatherGregorian] Tauriel CANNOT live. Jackson wouldn’t create her without killing her off. It’s going to happen. I don’t hate her, but I just know it
\n[Papagianni] The blood on his face was there before,but you can’t see it becuse of the blur
\n[AzogTheDefiler] He is mad because she is the reason his son is out there
\n[jenniearcheo] Has he been pretending to be buddy buddies with Bard?
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Demosthenes, it would have to be something really big\/bad that she did to merit that action. It is interesting. We first see Thranduil calm on this throne. Once he is in the real world in battle, he goes nuts.
\n[perry] I don’t see why she has to die. I don;t know either way.
\n[DuBekar] Maybe she swore fealty to Thorin?
\n[perry] A tragic end could also be excommunication or exile of sorts.
\n[jenniearcheo] He rides up on the Warmoose with Bard at his side, but later wants the elves to stand aside and let the men be slaughtered?!
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I really hope she doesn’t die.
\n[Demosthenes] Thranduil definitely has an inner anger.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] His son would be there no matter what. He would be shamed not to join the inevitable battle.
\n[jenniearcheo] He has issues. Actually, he may have a whole subscription.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] He doesn’t show it unless he is being disrespected. Thorin – shows the dragon scars, etc.
\n[Rantsu] I guess that Tauriel’s fate is either to die or go in to The West.
\n[perry] Maybe she has joined the men in battle at that time?
\n[FatherGregorian] How could she live?? It wouldn’t make any sense if she lived. And none of that Valinor stuff…<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok. Moving ahead. Scenes of a battle within Dale. This is definitely a skirmish, not BOFA itself. We see Azog here for sure. fighting … Thorin?
\n[Rantsu] And whatever happens to her, it will have some effect for Thranduil.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Rantsu, those are the only two options that I am seeing. But then again, it is Peter Jackson.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Excommunication! Perfect analogy for the bow breaking symbolism.
\n[Demosthenes] Or are two things being intercut?
\n[Papagianni] Basically the rumor is that Tauriel marches before Thranduil
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Azog wearing armor was interesting. He seemed to be in every battle without the armor.
\n[Demosthenes] Azog also has a scimitar attachment
\n[Demosthenes] as we saw in one banner
\n[gundabad] azog looks good
\n[Rantsu] Can’t judge by the trailer only, but…
\n[gundabad] azog will use ravenhill as a sort of base
\n[thatJustin] Azog is the captain hook of Middle-earth
\n[FatherGregorian] Yeah Azog looks fierce
\n[butterfly] Woah, that thing looks deadly!
\n[Rantsu] Is it just me, or is Azog looking better and better when the movies go forward?
\n[Demosthenes] Could this be Ravenhill?
\n[jenniearcheo] yes, that’s Thorin
\n[Rantsu] I mean, more natural and fitting to the environment.
\n[jenniearcheo] The cut of the coat.
\n[Demosthenes] the architecture is more dwarflike. Less like Dale proper.
\n[jenniearcheo] Facial hair
\n[smaugth3drag0n] He does. The CGI has come a very long way. I think his actual appearance will be much cleaner and realistic. Like Gollum was as LOTR progressed.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] That is where the final fight will take place i think. Ravenhill with Thorin, Kili, Fili, Legolas, Tauriel fighting Azog and Bolg
\n[gundabad] well from what ive read demo thorin and co will go to ravenhill to challenge azog
\n[Demosthenes] Will Thorin off Azog here?
\n[jenniearcheo] They’ve had time to up Azog digitally
\n[AmydaughterofBev] He was rather last minute in the first film, yes?
\n[jenniearcheo] Maybe, and then Bolg will take revenge at BOFA
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I haven’t read that part of the Hobbit yet. What exactly is the Ravenhill?
\n[jenniearcheo] A sort of lookout station.
\n[Demosthenes] it’s an outpost
\n[jenniearcheo] Where they have a conversation with a birdie
\n[Demosthenes] a watchtower of sorts
\n[Rantsu] I wonder if they’ll do some extra work for AUJ and DOS Azog for the Big Extended Edition Special Box set. \ud83d\ude00
\n[jenniearcheo] Which prolly won’t happen
\n[Rantsu] I would love to see Dain killing Azog.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Sad. I wanted to hear how they would voice the elder raven.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Is it primarily used by those who are good or bad?
\n[Rantsu] I mean, PJ has often moved things from one place to another.
\n[Rantsu] Whether it’s dialogue or actions.
\n[jenniearcheo] I know. PJ just doesn’t get into chatty wildfowl.
\n[Rantsu] Like Gandalf’s speech about Bilbo and Gollum. Bag End -]Moria
\n[AmydaughterofBev] LOL!<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok. next scene. Gonna skip to Bard clinging on … to the black arrow i think?
\n[DuBekar] The only indication of the Ravens’ relationship with the dwarves is their depiction in Thror’s crown and armor.
\n[gundabad] in the films smaugth3drag0n azog will use ravenhill
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, Rantsu, it’s unlikely to end the same with the tobacco pouch and all
\n[Rantsu] Dain vs Azog Azanulbizar-]Five Armies
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, it appears to be an arrow lodged between the stones of the tower
\n[butterfly] I guess he’s trying to get to the top with it during Smaug’s attack?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] That is why I thought Bard ends up killing Smaug with standard arrow.
\n[Demosthenes] I think it’s the corrolary of one of the scenes we saw earlier with bard almost going over the side
\n[jenniearcheo] Perhaps the Windlance\/iron bolt thing will miss, and he’ll go down and retrieve that arrow, and shoot the hole in the scales with it.
\n[Rantsu] It seems that Bard will run thorugh the rooftops to the Windlance
\n[Rantsu] Perhaps he’s shootinh his quiver empty from the rooftops, doing no harm
\n[butterfly] maybe he’s using it to climb the tower?
\n[Rantsu] And then, he reaches the tower
\n[Demosthenes] bain might have thrown the black arrow to him?
\n[Demosthenes] like a javelin?
\n[DuBekar] Smaug attack, leaping about rooftops and such. I think he’ll throw the black arrow like a spear. \ud83d\ude00
\n[jenniearcheo] Or wrestled it up there himself
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The arrow Bard is clinging on to is not the Black Arrow. It is too thin. It could be a javelin like Demosthenes just said.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] A longbow can shoot that arrow with enough skill
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s not the big metal one, smaugth3drag0n
\n[jenniearcheo] But maybe the big metal one will miss
\n[jenniearcheo] And he’ll have to use this little one
\n[smaugth3drag0n] No it is not. It is too thin.
\n[Demosthenes] hmm, you could be right there.
\n[jenniearcheo] It’s too thin to get through the scales
\n[jenniearcheo] But perhaps the hole . . .
\n[perry] Either a black arrow is the only way to kill a dragon, or it isn’t.
\n[DuBekar] Do you think he’ll talk to the Black Arrow like he did in the book?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] There are no scales there
\n[AmydaughterofBev] The weak spot…
\n[jenniearcheo] OTOH, they’ve made Smaug so large, it seems like a regular arrow would just get lost in the Smaug
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Ha!
\n[jenniearcheo] I sure hope not, DuBekar
\n[Rantsu] That’s why I think that Bard will first try to shoot Smaug from the rooftops, failing
\n[smaugth3drag0n] I am going to throw out a crazy idea. Let me know what the merit is of it: What if Bard misses Smaug with the Black Arrow. The dwarves have already crafted a black arrow from the melted gold at the end of the last movie. Far out there…I’m sure.
\n[DuBekar] The weak spot is most inconveniently placed. Right over Smaug’s heart.
\n[Demosthenes] It seems a metal shaft tho
\n[Rantsu] And then Bain delivers the Black Arrow to him
\n[Rantsu] ANd Windlance Archery Magic happens
\n[perry] He has to hit the weak spot. But mybe, unlike his ancestor, he doesn;t give up after he missed with the windlance. He’s an archer, so he tries his luck with his bow.
\n[jenniearcheo] But will a little birdie tell Bard about the weak spot in the armor? Surely Bilbo didn’t mention it to anyone that we saw
\n[thatJustin] wait. Tauriel is in lake town. she has Arwen powers. Do you think Tauriel will augment Bard’s arrow?
\n[DuBekar] Doesn’t need to tell him. He already suspects it’s there.
\n[Demosthenes] Nah, i don’t think so.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] “She has Arwen powers.” lol
\n[AzogTheDefiler] He already knows about the weak point when they talked about it in DOS
\n[Papagianni] thatJustin god no
\n[jenniearcheo] Whatever that arrow is, however thin, it at least appears to be bearing Bard’s weight.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] His son spoke of the loosened scale.
\n[perry] Bard believes the legend that his ancestor tore of a scale
\n[jenniearcheo] Ah, okay
\n[jenniearcheo] So again, no chatty fowl
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Bilbo confirmed that scale.
\n[DuBekar] Maybe he’ll spot the weak point in a harrowing flyover…
\n[jenniearcheo] lol
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Darn lack of chatty fowl!
\n[jenniearcheo] My goodness this is a long chat<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Next scene: Tauriel looking highly distraught. Snow-covered ground.
\n[DuBekar] Dead Kili.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Hey guys, if you watch the trailer at 0.5 speed, you can actually see the full arrow at 1:44. It is a normal arrow. Very strange\/
\n[Demosthenes] I have an alternate theory
\n[butterfly] I don’t think it’s Kili
\n[perry] Can we isolate where we think snow will be? Everywhere? Just Dale?
\n[Demosthenes] Post-Thranduil remorse.
\n[Rantsu] ^that
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Who else would it be besides Kili
\n[Papagianni] but i don’t thing she;s holding anybody,shes hurt!!!
\n[butterfly] I think she’s holding her knee, and her legs are to the side
\n[DuBekar] Makes sense.
\n[jenniearcheo] Tauriel appears to be fighting Bolg.
\n[Demosthenes] she does not have her bow
\n[DuBekar] Yeah, those are her boots. She’s not holding anyone.
\n[thatJustin] do you think PJ will intercut two deaths
\n[butterfly] Those ain’t Dwarf boots
\n[perry] true. Not dwarf boots. Either Legolas or her own legs.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] I agree. Her boots…seems to be holding a wound she sustained.
\n[Demosthenes] I feel it could be a reverse cut post the scene where Thranduil attacks her.
\n[jenniearcheo] She’s looking up at Thranduil in remorse?
\n[Demosthenes] Quite possibly
\n[Papagianni] Demosthenes not the same scenery though
\n[DuBekar] Or off into the distance, likely as not.
\n[Demosthenes] It’s a tight shot. hard to tell.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think that is probably Ravenhill not Dale
\n[Demosthenes] If I was to argue against my theory, i would point out the snow does not appear to be fresh
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The look on her face is just crushing. We never saw her this vulnerable in DOS.
\n[Demosthenes] which would point to Ravenhill not Dale.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Could she be crying over Kili’s dead body?
\n[butterfly] It’s not Kili! We just disputed that
\n[jenniearcheo] In the books, Fili and Kili die defending Thorin.
\n[Papagianni] i think she looks at Legolas
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Maybe Bolg kills Kili and Legolas starts fighting him and she goes to Kili
\n[smaugth3drag0n] My bad.
\n[Demosthenes] Maybe Leggy just dumped her.
\n[Papagianni] they both fight bol
\n[jenniearcheo] heh
\n[smaugth3drag0n] lol. Good one, Dem.
\n[jenniearcheo] “I saw you having stone with that dwarf.”
\n[DuBekar] Alternately… maybe she’s lamenting the destruction of Laketown. Maybe one of Bard’s kids gets killed in the attack and she blames herself for not protecting them.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Hahahaha!
\n[butterfly] No, not the kids!!!
\n[perry] Dumped, but in a real sense – maybe, after the conflict with Thranduil, he cuts her loose, disavows her, ends the friednship.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] In a PJ movie, all the kids live.
\n[Demosthenes] Could it be a continuance of the scene just after where Bolg hurls her against a wall?
\n[jenniearcheo] Breaks the bow
\n[Papagianni] Maybe Kili died and she looks at Legolas like –
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The kids wont die there was a picture of them looking at Lake Town from the sore
\n[Demosthenes] That’s another option
\n[DuBekar] Maybe Legolas kills Kili…
\n[Demosthenes] as in post-fight resolution
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Oh! I had not thought of the kids being harmed. I assumed she and the remaining dwarves would have saved them.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] +shore
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Wow. We are reaaaaaallllly out there now.;
\n[jenniearcheo] Yeah, the teaser trailer showed them okay
\n[perry] I think it’s too much of a giveaway for the trailer to show Tauriel crying over kili’s death.
\n[jenniearcheo] Surely they’d been sent a safe distance from the impending battle
\n[jenniearcheo] Yeah, I think this is the argument with Thranduil, is all
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Indeed…behind the base camp.
\n[perry] Vard says they will not die if he kills the dragon first – and he does. So they live.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Perry, what was the first shot of the very first trailer for BOTFA? Quite revealing there with Bilbo.<\/p>\n

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[jenniearcheo] And then they cut to the Tauriel\/Bolg fight
\n[Demosthenes] You don’t think it’s post-Bolg then?
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Where are all the woman and children refugees during the battle anyway?
\n[jenniearcheo] On the shore, one assumes
\n[perry] I don;t remember
\n[smaugth3drag0n] The shores seem the most logical.
\n[perry] Oh. Bilbo weeping.
\n[Papagianni] maybe she cries because she hasn’t beel that physically hurt before
\n[Papagianni] been*
\n[jenniearcheo] Legolas getting jiggy with the double swords
\n[perry] She doesn’t belong anywhere.
\n[Demosthenes] Papagianni: if she was really hurt by bolg … maybe
\n[Papagianni] yeah
\n[AmydaughterofBev] She has got to feel a torrent of emotions.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] They cant be in the shore, the army from Dol Guldur comes from the south they would run into them
\n[Demosthenes] Being thrown against a wall can’t be fun. even if you’re a final fantasy hero.
\n[jenniearcheo] And then a weird flash of pre-Smaug Laketown
\n[Demosthenes] Are we moving on then?
\n[jenniearcheo] I’m sure she’s at least badly bruised after that
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Yes
\n[butterfly] Thorin amongst the gold<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Gandalf’s line “you have only one question…”
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Thorin in the gold will happen eartly i think
\n[AmydaughterofBev] May I mention Gandalf”s quote? It is now my screensaver at work, much to my boss’ displeasure.
\n[jenniearcheo] Many BOFA orc shots. And now we see the end of Bard’s weird runaway cart dash through Dale. He hits a big bald . . . half troll?
\n[jenniearcheo] lol
\n[Demosthenes] AmydaughterofBev: sure
\n[Demosthenes] I don’t think it’s my fave line tbh but a lot of others like it.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] That is all. I thought it was placed perfectly in the trailer.
\n[jenniearcheo] I can see a boss disliking “How will this day end?” lol
\n[DuBekar] Gandalf’s line is probably when he’s trying to get the Elves and Dwarves and Men to work together to fight the Orcs instead of killing each other over the treasure.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] That thing is so ugly is he the new Goblin King or just a Half-Troll commander?
\n[thatJustin] Gandalf line is two different parts of the movie
\n[Demosthenes] DuBekar: good theory. maybe it’s after the wargs start showing up?
\n[thatJustin] that orc troll looks like Tom Wilkinson
\n[Orionsangel] I saw all the Lord of the Rings films with my Dad & the two Hobbit films. He doesn’t get out much at his age. So seeing the final Hobbit with him in theaters will be bittersweet for me.
\n[gundabad] probably new leader of goblins after great goblin
\n[Demosthenes] justin: could be for sure
\n[AzogTheDefiler] So the orcs of goblin town will join dol guldur
\n[DuBekar] Yeah. In the book, Gandalf stops them at the last second from charging each other by reminding them of their true enemy. Makes sense that scene would appear in some form in the movie.
\n[Demosthenes] I still think it’s a bit … yano … generic
\n[AmydaughterofBev] DuBekar, I agree it is likely a rallying cry to the troops.
\n[mib_yjpgmg] Tauriel gonnaaa dieeee
\n[thatJustin] Tauriel gonna die as much as Gandalf gonna die as much as Raddy gonna die<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Also, among that sequence … we’ve got legolas fighting bolg.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Ah yes the rematch
\n[Demosthenes] also seems to be Ravenhill
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Liked a boss!
\n[jenniearcheo] After he throws her]
\n[jenniearcheo] ?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Like…sorry.
\n[Demosthenes] But, presumably, Bolg will have to get away?
\n[gundabad] legolas will not deliver final blow beorn will
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: maybe after Tauriel gets hurled.
\n[jenniearcheo] And because?
\n[Demosthenes] gundabad: agreed
\n[DuBekar] Legolas has a score to settle. He doesn’t like his nose getting bloodied.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Maybe that is when Beorn appears?
\n[jenniearcheo] Oh, that’s right
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think Beorn will kill that half troll beast he is a big guy it would be a good fight
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: because this is a skirmish not the main battle
\n[jenniearcheo] He bloodied the pretty
\n[Demosthenes] and they need to keep the antagonists until the climax
\n[Demosthenes] if only to kill Thorin \ud83d\ude42
\n[butterfly] \ud83d\ude41
\n[AzogTheDefiler] So Thorin kills Azog, maybe Legolas kills Bolg and Beorn kills the new Goblin King
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Thorin’s death in the book was much less dramatic than it will certainly be portrayed in the movie.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] The three villains dealt with and everyone is happe because Beorn gets to kill one of them
\n[Rantsu] I still think that Dain will kill some of the Big Villains.
\n[DuBekar] I wonder if they’re going to have Beorn carry Thorin off the field. That’s pretty dramatic.
\n[perry] Will he kill as a man or as a bear?
\n[gundabad] i dont think that weird troll looking thing will play that big a part
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think that big guy is in the movie to fight Beorn
\n[smaugth3drag0n] More than likely as a bear.
\n[perry] gunda, I agree, because he just came into the film. No one is invested i him.
\n[gundabad] hes sjust likely a captain a random
\n[Rantsu] Kinda a cool reference to the Azanulbizar, especially if he kills Azog, and I think that PJ will show that this Ironfoot is very badass dwarf.
\n* Barliman Is Frowning At Rantsu Please don’t swear [:( (This is your 1st warning)
\n[thatJustin] Dain is supposed to be a big ol machine of a dwarf<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Ok, second-last scene: Bard on the cart. what the hell?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Agreed. There were loads of close ups on other CGI characters previously.
\n[Demosthenes] i mean … what?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Ha!
\n[thatJustin] needed to keep Quickbeam happy
\n[jenniearcheo] We’ve seen t his in the Teaser
\n[jenniearcheo] His daughters are there! Cart goes over them
\n[Demosthenes] it’s like some craziness that escaped from DOS
\n[jenniearcheo] (they duck)
\n[DuBekar] Pointless action sequence.
\n[jenniearcheo] Seems this crash is what happens next
\n[perry] well, he’s in a rush to get someplace. So when could this be.
\n[Demosthenes] yeah agreed.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Probably a way to defeat that big guy
\n[Demosthenes] it’s the car chase in fantasyland
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Will look good in super duper hi res 3D.
\n[jenniearcheo] Who needs San Francisco when you have Dale?
\n[thatJustin] HFR
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Thank you.
\n[butterfly] I’m seeing it in 3D HFR ^^
\n[Demosthenes] That scene was in the teaser too wasn’t it?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] I am not a techie…just an old chick who enjoys it.
\n[Demosthenes] it seems familiar anyhow
\n[perry] there’s another cart, or chariot, with dwarves. and they get attacked.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Could the enemy have pushed Bard in that cart down the hill to try to hurt him?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Yes…there are wargs too.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] Thats a battle wagon
\n[Demosthenes] No, i’ve definitely seen this cart before.
\n[Demosthenes] somewhere
\n[jenniearcheo] In the teaser, Dems
\n[jenniearcheo] Bard’s in it
\n[thatJustin] Thorin’s wheelbarrow ride was only the start
\n[jenniearcheo] The daughters duck, he goes over them
\n[Demosthenes] nod. thought so.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Ah! Battle wagon. Cheers!
\n[Demosthenes] It’s an odd duck in a trailer that is so not a theme park ride.
\n[Demosthenes] and presumably is a good guide to the tenor of the movie
\n[jenniearcheo] It looks like an oddly placed moment of comedy. Or attempt at same.
\n[Demosthenes] yeah<\/p>\n

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[Demosthenes] Shall we do the last scene then?
\n[jenniearcheo] If so, it’s the only hint at comedy in the whole film.
\n[jenniearcheo] Bilbo putting on the ring?
\n[Demosthenes] That’s the one.
\n[perry] what about thorin’s fight
\n[FatherGregorian] Wait guys, I’m sorry to digress….but did you talk about Saruman yet?
\n[Demosthenes] FatherGregorian: way earlier, yes. we went scene by scene.
\n[jenniearcheo] We’d actually talked about that before you joined us, but we could again.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] I think Bilbo will help Thorin against Azog
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Where is he? At the gate?
\n[Demosthenes] let’s just chat about Bilbo first
\n[jenniearcheo] He appears to be somewhere with a painted door.
\n[jenniearcheo] Which is odd
\n[Demosthenes] because then we’re done \ud83d\ude42
\n[butterfly] I think Martin’s giving the finger there XD
\n[jenniearcheo] Trees on the sides
\n[AmydaughterofBev] ha
\n[jenniearcheo] Very dirty
\n[butterfly] Bilbo’s flipping us all off…
\n[Demosthenes] it seems to be …. dale’s archiutecture?
\n[jenniearcheo] Not sure why he’s going invisible
\n[Demosthenes] battle?
\n[jenniearcheo] Certainly in the battle
\n[jenniearcheo] Got the shirt on
\n[Demosthenes] yes
\n[Puma] he is going invisible to hide from the pj verse
\n[Demosthenes] i definitely think it’s Dale.
\n[jenniearcheo] The tree may be an overgrown look
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Oh my gosh! I see the shirt now. You all DO have elf eyes!
\n[jenniearcheo] The round arches would seem to be Dale-like
\n[butterfly] yeah, the shirt!
\n[Demosthenes] jennie: italian-style frescoes?
\n[AmydaughterofBev] This is my first trip into the Hall and I have learned so much.
\n[butterfly] I hope to see the scene where Thorin gives the shirt to him!
\n[jenniearcheo] And he’s scuffed. He’s only scuffed in Battle scenes
\n[Demosthenes] the creamy-brown colouraiton
\n[jenniearcheo] Yes, some sort of fresco thing
\n[Demosthenes] i say it’s dale cuz all those reasons
\n[Mithrandir] Gosh! You guys still discussing the trailer? \ud83d\ude00
\n[jenniearcheo] I know. Three hours for a 2:34 trailer
\n[butterfly] just finishing!
\n[jenniearcheo] Okay, can we do Saruman for FatherGregorian
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Could this be him hiding from Bolg that we saw in the previous trailer? He did have the Mithril shirt on then as well.
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Yes. I am a newbie. I think I am slowing everything down.
\n[butterfly] My God, it’s past 1am here!
\n[Demosthenes] mith: we just finished scene-by-scening it. i knew if we did it that way it would be loooong.
\n[jenniearcheo] But we got far more out of it than the chaos
\n[Demosthenes] that’s true
\n[jenniearcheo] Which we had for nearly an hour
\n[Demosthenes] sorry for the mess earlier.
\n[smaugth3drag0n] It was great. I noticed details in the trailer that I did not catch in the three or four viewings.
\n[AzogTheDefiler] 3 hours of epicness await us
\n[Mithrandir] That’s ok, Demz!
\n[AmydaughterofBev] Me too. I thought I had watched with an eagle eye…not so!
\n[Demosthenes] hah. our trailer chat was longer than the actual film.
\n[jenniearcheo] Okay, FatherGregorian. We thought that Saruman might have been already in league with Sauron secretly. Or
\n[Demosthenes] that’s so funny
\n[jenniearcheo] Perhaps not yet
\n[smaugth3drag0n] Not a problem. <\/p>\n

Log ends! A big thank-you to everyone who participated and shared their thoughts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A little earlier today, Hall of Fire took a detour into movie-land to pull apart the brand-new trailer…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":14,"featured_media":93526,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"inline_featured_image":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[136,117,119,4,148,2490,2497,1724],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-94325","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-barliman-news","category-barlimans","category-barliman-hof","category-hobbit-movie","category-hobbit","category-the-hobbit-the-battle-of-five-armies","category-the-hobbit-the-battle-of-the-five-armies","category-trailer"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t