{"id":92961,"date":"2014-10-08T08:00:28","date_gmt":"2014-10-08T13:00:28","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/?p=92961"},"modified":"2014-10-07T17:38:59","modified_gmt":"2014-10-07T22:38:59","slug":"exclusive-jed-brophy-talks-to-torn-part-two","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.theonering.net\/torwp\/2014\/10\/08\/92961-exclusive-jed-brophy-talks-to-torn-part-two\/","title":{"rendered":"EXCLUSIVE – Jed Brophy talks to TORn: Part Two"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Jed-Brophy01\"<\/a>At the start of the summer, TORn staffer greendragon had the chance to continue her series ‘Inside the Middle-earth actor’s studio’ –\u00a0discussing the craft of acting (and other things!) with cast members from\u00a0The\u00a0Hobbit<\/em> and\u00a0The Lord of the Rings<\/em> movies. This time she sat down with an actor who has been involved since the beginning of Peter Jackson’s Middle-earth films – the fabulous Jed Brophy. To celebrate the release of TORn’s new book Middle-earth Madness<\/em><\/a>, which features this and other interviews, here’s your chance to read what Brophy had to say.<\/p>\n

This is Part Two of a long interview; you can find Part One here<\/a>. Third and final part later this week!<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

greendragon: When you\u2019re first preparing a character, how do you approach it? With your physical background, are you someone who thinks about the character\u2019s movement first? Where do you begin?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jed Brophy: A bit of both, really. I\u2019m a bit of a watcher, so I\u2019ll ride the train and get some notes on how my character may be from people that I see that I think are in a similar situation, psychologically or financially or whatever. A lot of it is what the other characters say about you in the script which informs you; quite often it\u2019s interesting to see the way that the other characters refer to you \u2013 it gives you a great idea of status. For me status is the most important thing – where you fit in to the group. Especially with this project \u2013 that was very elementary, in terms of knowing where Nori fitted within these thirteen other people. Obviously he\u2019s quite low status, because he\u2019s not part of Thorin\u2019s immediate family or wider group, people like Gloin and Oin, who are of that generation. Given that he was a thief, he wasn\u2019t really part of his own family \u2013 so I started with that thing of him slightly being an outsider. And that informs you physically too; always looking for an exit! Every scene that I was in, I was always looking around to see where I could get out. I don\u2019t trust these dwarves yet to look after me, because I\u2019ve always had to look after myself. Also it helped being a little more nimble, a bit quicker \u2013 it\u2019s that thing of having to be light on his feet to get out of situations, living rough; and also having that hardiness, and not taking a backwards step from people, not being cowed by anything; the fact that he\u2019s been on his own. So yeah, I tend to start with the script and see what information about the character is there.<\/p>\n

The physical stuff, we were lucky enough to be able to do it together; and actually when you watch other people physically creating dwarf characters, we had a leg up \u2013 because we could watch what other people were doing and go, \u2018Oh I like that! I really like that kind of heavy weight thing that you\u2019ve got going on in the boots. I really like what Richard is doing in terms of being upright, but down and through his belly\u2026\u2019 \u2013 and then trying that stuff out. We got eight weeks to try it out, with Terry Notary giving us notes on whether he thought we were doing a good job or not! Then the proof is when you get it in front of Peter \u2013 and he says, \u2018I don\u2019t like any of it!\u2019 [laughs] We were lucky though, that he and Fran and Philippa gave really detailed notes right at the beginning of the very first meeting, as to how they saw our characters in the hierarchy; and also some of the physical dimensions and some of the physical tricks and abilities that they had, that set them apart. It\u2019s much easier when you get a wealth of stuff. We also had Alan [Lee] and John [Howe] with just amazing artworks, and there were a lot of illustrations done by various artists from Weta and from Wingnut films and various other people; so we were very lucky. Actually we had kind of too much \u2013 it was then filtering out the stuff that was useful\u2026<\/p>\n

GD: I\u2019m interested in what you said about Nori\u2019s status; how he\u2019s an outsider, and certainly not a member of one of the more \u2018aristocratic\u2019 dwarven families\u2026 But in his own mind, do you think he has quite a high status?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: Yes. When you become ostracized\u2026 I think the thing with him picking stuff up and keeping it is a reflex; it\u2019s that thing of when you are living rough, that \u2018that might be useful later on, I\u2019ll keep that\u2026\u2019 It hasn\u2019t really come from him being disrespectful to his family, as such. He has a lot of personal pride; he won\u2019t take a backwards step for anyone, especially of another race\u2026 elves, you can bring it on! We\u2019re going to have it! You know, he knows orcs and wargs are bad. It\u2019s not necessarily that he wants to fight them, but he knows they\u2019re bad, he knows what they are. So yeah, I think he\u2019s got a lot of pride in the fact that he has kept himself alive outside of his dwarven family, and outside of his settlement, if you like. I think they all do; I think there\u2019s a genetic arrogance about the dwarves. They know their history; they know that they were made by their god [Aul\u00eb] before the elves \u2013 they were here first, and they carry themselves with that… It comes from Thorin too; when your leader is so staunchly strong about who he is and what his entitlement is, that does filter down to the rest. But I think genetically the dwarves have that\u2026 it\u2019s maybe not a particularly attractive trait, to the other races \u2013 especially to elves! But we don\u2019t know any different.<\/p>\n

GD: Tolkien makes that clear; the arrogance and stubbornness amongst the dwarves\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: And anything that comes out of the ground is ours! The fact that we gave it to the elves \u2013 we\u2019re only lending it! The idea that the elves have these things \u2013 well, if it came out of the ground, it actually belongs to us.<\/p>\n

GD: And we see that in The Silmarillion<\/em>, where the dwarves are offended because the elves pass dwarvish made treasure down to their descendants; and the dwarves say, \u2018No, you had it, but once you go, we get it back! You don\u2019t get to pass it on to anyone!\u2019 [This refers to the Nauglam\u00edr, in \u2018Of the Ruin of Doriath\u2019.]<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: They end up killing the king [Thingol] in his own vaults, and taking back the treasure that they made for him\u2026 Yeah, I think that is very true of dwarves with each other as well. If Nori takes something from you \u2013 \u2018It\u2019s mine now, mate!\u2019 You\u2019re not getting it back!<\/p>\n

\"Nori-Real\"<\/a>GD: Where did the idea for the shape of Nori\u2019s hair come from?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: [laughs] I\u2019ve heard so many different stories! Paul Tobin did the design for it, but he did a number of designs, and that was the one that Peter really liked. I think he really liked the idea of Nori having that kind of vanity\u2026 that he would take that much time to do his hair, a bit like the Fonz does, you know? I have to say, I wasn\u2019t sure\u2026 When I first saw it I was like, \u2018Ah man, the fans are going to hate this\u2026\u2019 That\u2019s the first thing that goes through your head, you know? Because in my view, that wasn\u2019t what I saw when I closed my eyes and saw the dwarves. I didn\u2019t see someone with a starfish hairdo! But having said that, you can always see where Nori is! You can always pick up where he is and what he\u2019s doing in the film; I think it\u2019s great that they went for such a distinctive look. I know that myself, before I was even cast, one of my big fears was, \u2018They\u2019re all going to be like Gimli, and only two of them will speak\u2019 \u2013 like in the book. So the fact that they made them so iconic is a really good thing.<\/p>\n

GD: Even in silhouette, you can immediately tell which dwarf is which! How they would differentiate these dwarves was certainly something the fans talked about a lot, before the film came out; because in the book they are not particularly delineated\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: No! They\u2019re a big lump of plasticine, with one speaking head, really! Thorin, Balin and Dwalin are really the only ones who actually talk in the book at all. You know, there are lots of complaints from fans that we should have had more to say; but I think that was one part of the filming process that I was quite pleased that they stuck to, the fact that we had a clear leader and some clear spokesmen, and the rest of us had our own little jobs. Really we were there for the sole purpose of getting across this barrier and regaining some sense of entitlement and our sense of history\u2026 Having said that, Nori is there for one thing, and that\u2019s himself and the money! It\u2019s not until probably two thirds of the way through that I really start to see Thorin as my king; it\u2019s that thing of, \u2018You better prove yourself to me, mister!\u2019 Nori\u2019s at the back quite a lot, kind of going, \u2018OK Thorin, you think you\u2019re all that, but you\u2019re a bit nuts, for a start! You\u2019re slightly overbearing\u2026 and you lose your way all the time!\u2019 [laughs] \u2018And you\u2019ve got some guy who\u2019s a burglar! I\u2019m a burglar, mate \u2013 you don\u2019t need this little guy!\u2019<\/p>\n

GD: I always wondered how Nori feels about that! In the second film, when they first reenter Erebor through the hidden door, and Thorin says, \u2018That, Master Burglar, is why you are here!\u2019 \u2013 in that shot, Nori happens to be standing right by him, and I always wonder what Nori\u2019s thinking at that point\u2026 \u2018I should be the one doing this!\u2019<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: Yeah, he is thinking that. But he\u2019s thinking it in a way that he would never let anyone else know. The dwarves are very good hiding\u2026 – it helps having a prosthetic piece on your head actually, because you can hide a lot! – the dwarves are very good at hiding their inner feelings. It\u2019s something that they would never let on; it\u2019s something that they may use, further down the line, in a spiteful way, but I don\u2019t think that they would ever say it out loud. \u2018I\u2019m the burglar! This guy? \u2013 he\u2019s useless!\u2019 Clearly Nori, although he\u2019s good at some things \u2013 sleight of hand \u2013 there are some things he\u2019s not as good at. Disappearing, for instance \u2013 he can\u2019t make himself invisible! He\u2019s not sure how this guy is such a good burglar \u2013 I think there\u2019s a little bit of suspicion actually\u2026<\/p>\n

GD: In the way that you\u2019ve created Nori in the film, why is there that distance between him and his brothers [Ori and Dori]?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: It\u2019s more that he feels he\u2019s let the family name down. He also hasn\u2019t been there for his brother Ori. He\u2019s been away from the family, and there\u2019s a little bit of guilt tied up in that. Ori knows nothing about being a dwarf; he\u2019s not a particularly robust fighting person! Part of that is that I let my older brother mother him! Dori really doesn\u2019t want any harm to come to anyone; he would rather we all stayed at home, smoking a pipe in front of the fire \u2013 even though he\u2019s quite a vicious warrior himself. I don\u2019t think he wants Ori to have that experience\u2026 And I think a lot of that distance comes from Nori going, \u2018I really need to work out how I fit back into this family dynamic. I know I don\u2019t like my older brother; I\u2019d like to get to know my younger brother!\u2019 But they never get a chance! All this stuff gets thrown on them from day one; the moment they leave Bag End, really, they\u2019re on their own. So a lot of that stuff gets put on the back burner.<\/p>\n

GD: So how does Nori find the time to do his hair every morning?!<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: That\u2019s a question that has never been clearly answered by the director for me! I have asked on a number of occasions, \u2018Will there be a scene of us doing our hair?\u2019 And you just never get an answer! [laughs] I think for fans it would have been interesting at a campfire scene, to have \u2013 I think probably Dori does everyone\u2019s hair\u2026 And the beards, too! The beards would take hours \u2013 and I think Peter probably didn\u2019t want to make a five hour film, with an hour just of dwarves plaiting\u2026<\/p>\n

GD: Perhaps in the extended edition of An Unexpected Journey<\/em>, in the scene at Rivendell where we catch a glimpse of you all having a bath in the fountains, perhaps some hair doing went on after that\u2026?<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: [laughs] I\u2019m glad that that made it in! Because there were a lot of people who didn\u2019t want that scene to make it into the film; but I\u2019m really glad that it did\u2026<\/p>\n

GD: Obviously you\u2019ve played a lot of roles, particularly with Peter, where you have not really been recognizable, where you\u2019ve been under a lot of prosthetic \u2013 even more so than you are in the Hobbit<\/em> movies! Which do you find easier: performing where it\u2019s just your face that you have to work with, or performing where you can really be hidden underneath something else, and be perhaps liberated, in a way? (And I suppose the most liberated would be performance capture, where it\u2019s not going to be you at all in the end, other than the energy you\u2019ve brought to the character\u2026.)<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: They\u2019re all very similar. A lot of people look at the demarcation between those various aspects\u2026 Being a creature actor, as we call it, you are using your physical self a lot more than perhaps you would in a theatre piece, where you\u2019re relying on expressions or what you\u2019re thinking. Certainly in film where you\u2019re not in prosthetics, if you think it, it shows on screen. If you\u2019re wearing a prosthetic, that isn\u2019t true anymore; you have to work the prosthetic, and make it more of a non-human thing. I think that\u2019s the trick; a lot of the time when you\u2019re stuck in prosthetics, you\u2019re not playing a human character, so what you\u2019re trying to find is what differentiates that species. What differentiates that creature from having a human emotion; what are our emotions, as the creature \u2013 and trying to portray that, through the rubber. It wasn\u2019t my choice to be a creature actor; it just kind of ended up that way, that I had an ability that Peter really liked\u2026<\/p>\n

My philosophy of acting is just to act; take whatever job comes up and not worry too much about whether it\u2019s going to be useful for my career down the line or what it might do to get me a job on the next gig. So I guess that part of it I don\u2019t think about too much. It\u2019s just that challenge of being able to read through the prosthetic is very difficult; you have to have a quite flexible face. Andy Serkis has the most flexible face in the industry! When you do motion capture, you do a range of character emotions on your face, and I think most of us have a bank of about 250 to maybe 300 expressions. Andy\u2019s are in the thousands! The subtlety that he can get into his expressions, because of the way that he can move his face, is extraordinary. And that\u2019s the challenge \u2013 that\u2019s the similarity between prosthetic acting and motion capture. With motion capture, you are creating believable emotions through a computer generated model, and you have to work it a lot harder than you would do just sitting talking to you like this. In fact, there\u2019s a kind of saying in film that less is more; the less you do with your face, the easier it is to watch, because your eye is going to be huge on screen. That\u2019s the, \u2018Just think and it will come.\u2019 Having said that, when you watch Ian McKellen playing Gandalf, his face is incredibly expressive; and I think again, because he\u2019s playing a slightly non-human creature, playing a wizard, that makes things become heightened. So it totally depends on the genre. I would prefer to be just me; I would prefer to not have the prosthetics. It\u2019s an arduous thing to put on every day; it adds hours to your day. And as you say, in terms of your viability as an actor, it\u2019s all about selling your profile; it\u2019s a lot harder when you have to tell people who you were in a film!<\/p>\n

GD: What you say about Andy – he reminds me of Rowan Atkinson; he\u2019s a great comedian and wrote brilliant material, but when you think about \u2018Mr Bean\u2019, a large part of what makes that so funny is his facial expressions \u2013 what he can do with that almost rubber face that he has! Andy is very similar; incredibly expressive.<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: Yes, there\u2019s no doubt; and using that ability, he\u2019s advanced the technology for making films. I don\u2019t think, personally, that motion capture will ever take over live action filming; I think actually there are subtleties that you have, human emotions that we have subconsciously that we don\u2019t even know, which are from a lifetime of socialization. You can\u2019t distil that into a single performance. Andy has wisely said \u2013 and Peter has too \u2013 that there are limitations to what motion capture can do; and I think that\u2019s a good thing. For me, the films I love to watch are small films with three or four actors, acting their pants off! For me, that is the most satisfying film; I\u2019m not a great fan of the huge CGI extravaganzas, because I know how that stuff\u2019s done. There\u2019s no magic in it for me, because I\u2019ve seen how it\u2019s done behind the scenes. Whereas someone being able to\u2026 you know, there\u2019s a reason why we all loved Phillip Seymour Hoffman, there\u2019s a reason why we all love Viggo, there\u2019s a reason why people like Martin Freeman and Ian McKellen, Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett, we want to see them on film. It\u2019s because they bring something else that not all actors have. You know, we talk about A-listers; for me, the A-listers are not the people who earn the big money. They\u2019re the people who can inhabit any character. It doesn\u2019t really matter what Cate plays \u2013 you believe it. For some reason, she just brings and honesty and an integrity; and I think all actors are trying and striving for that in their work \u2013 and that\u2019s a lot harder when you\u2019re stuck behind a layer of rubber!<\/p>\n

I did a film [The Dead Room<\/em>] at the beginning of this year where I played a man who was a ghost hunter, and that was one of the most satisfying jobs, because it was just three actors. No creature \u2013 it was all just talked about and referred to, and it was our reactions to whatever was there. That was pure acting; and I think that\u2019s what we all love to do.<\/p>\n

GD: I was just rewatching the Macbeth<\/em> that McKellen did with the Royal Shakespeare Company back in the 1970s, with Judi Dench \u2013 which was such a fascinating production! On the DVD, there\u2019s a 45 minute interview with McKellen talking about that production, and he says there how what was so great in that production was how minimal it was. Because it was in a very small venue [The Other Place in Stratford-upon-Avon] with only about 100 seats in it, the acting could be more filmic, as the audience were so close they could see everything; there was no need make it big. So they could just strip it all away, which is, as you say, the most satisfying kind of work\u2026<\/strong><\/p>\n

JB: I\u2019ve heard a lot of people say they didn\u2019t like Ed Sheeran\u2019s song, \u2018I see fire\u2019. It\u2019s such a simple and beautiful piece of music, because it\u2019s just him and a guitar, and some violins. To me, it\u2019s the simplicity which he brought to it \u2013 it just goes straight to the heart. I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re all aiming for; and I think all actors that you talk to, who worked on The Hobbit<\/em>, would say the same thing about Ian. He\u2019s way up there; it\u2019s like being in a masterclass, watching him, because of the subtlety that he brought to the role \u2013 but also the integrity. He was wanting that to be totally believable, not just for himself but for his fellow actors. I mean, what you try to do when you have a relationship on a film set is actually to have a conversation that is real, so that the audience read that as being the first time that you\u2019ve heard it; the first time that Gandalf has said something to the dwarves, the first time that we\u2019ve been in danger\u2026 It\u2019s a lot harder on film, because you\u2019ve got all the technical things layered on top of that, and you may do fifteen takes before you get one that Peter actually likes in terms of the drama that\u2019s happening, so you do have to fabricate a lot more than in theatre. The immediacy that you get in theatre is a lot more honest, I think, and it\u2019s what we all try to attain when we do film. If you have a good director \u2013 if you have someone like Peter, who casts a group of people and lets them play a bit, you can get magic happening.<\/p>\n

GD: It\u2019s that space to play \u2013 that\u2019s what boggles my mind about film! In theatre you have the time to get yourself into the place, mentally, where you want to be; but it seems to me that on a film set, so often you won\u2019t have that time. It\u2019s, \u2018Let\u2019s go again!\u2019, and you\u2019ve got to get back to some other mindset in the scene, jumping around\u2026 So to allow the cast that space, to grow something together, must be very helpful; and it\u2019s evident, on the screen.<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"jed<\/a>JB: Yeah, it is. Doing this horror film The Dead Room<\/em> at the beginning of the year, we would make the crew go away while we got the drama happening between the characters to a point where we felt it was believable for us, in terms of that it was a real conversation; it wasn\u2019t actors reading lines anymore. Then we\u2019d get them back and they would watch it, and then we\u2019d film it; and it was from the way that Peter works, the way that he does that. He will clear the set, and get all the actors and actually run it like a play. Maybe he doesn\u2019t know that he\u2019s doing it, because he\u2019s not a theatre director, but essentially what he\u2019s doing is allowing us to block a scene, in the same way that you do theatre – then go away and have a think about it, in terms of being able to up the ante\u2026 And then he can just tweak. He can apply the thumbtacks, and tighten the screws and see where it brings us. He can just tweak as a director; it\u2019s very brave to do that. The reason a lot of film directors are control freaks is because they\u2019re worried that the vision that they have in their head will be stripped to something where it ends up not being the thing that they started out with\u2026<\/p>\n

I did a theatre show [An Unseasonable Fall of Snow<\/em>] with my son at the beginning of the year where it was just us, a table and two chairs. It\u2019s an hour and a half play; there\u2019s nowhere to hide. You can\u2019t go, \u2018Sorry ladies and gentlemen, we need to put a different filter on and come back and redo that\u2026\u2019 You just have to adapt; if it\u2019s not going well, or if you miss a beat or are losing the audience, you have to really work. Part of you has to stand outside it too, to monitor it; the great thing about film is, that\u2019s the director\u2019s job! You can be totally immersed, and it\u2019s their job to monitor it, and go, \u2018OK, it\u2019s being pulled in a direction I don\u2019t want it to go any more \u2013 we need to bring it back to this\u2026\u2019<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Part Three of this interview coming later this week!<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

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